Perimiter Ramp Wait Time

[RampChamp]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I have been working the ground at Perimeter now for close to a year in Thompson. After a year of waiting there are still about a dozen or so guys/gals up here who are "ahead" of me in terms of ground seniority (yeah, that's a thing). Movement has come to a halt, and rumor has it nobody is going to the flight-line within the next 6 months. When I first got up here most of the new F/Os only waited a year (some less). Recently its been more like 1.5 years, but over the time I've been here I've only seen 4 ground guys go to training. If you do the math, that makes another 3 years on the ramp for me . Careful what you wish for, Perimeter used to be a quick way to get some multi-turbine time, not so much these days.

Good Luck,

RC

[North Shore]

Sounds like the good old days when Skyward was running, and it was rumoured that even the lurkers had a seniority...

[bearitus]

Thanks for the info, really appreciate it! I have decided to do a road trip from YOW to YWG for my interview and to drop off my resume at a few places along the way. I was thinking of stopping in: NorthBay, Sudbury, Sault Ste Marie and Thunder Bay . Are there any specific operations I should/should not be visiting in these cities ?

[Illya Kuryakin]

Thanks for the info, really appreciate it! I have decided to do a road trip from YOW to YWG for my interview and to drop off my resume at a few places along the way. I was thinking of stopping in: NorthBay, Sudbury, Sault Ste Marie and Thunder Bay . Are there any specific operations I should/should not be visiting in these cities ?

I'm sure if you're willing to be a rampie (nothing like aiming high!) there should be lots. I'm sure Wasaya can "use" you. It's what that do.....just to name one.
Illya

[awitzke]

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[awitzke]

.edit

[PROC_HDG]

Pass on PAG. Rumour is ramp wait times are off the charts and there are reductions on the DH8 side (ie overstaffed on all types). Plus at least 50 hopefuls throwing bags and checking in chicken will be ahead of you on the list (unless the company decides they like you more than the next guy, then you might jump everyone). And when you do finally get a shot at flying, prepare to get bent over in the training department if the psychopaths that run it decide they don't like you (hint: pretend you like model airplanes, flight simulator and world of warcraft). Oh, and if you do make it through "training" don't count on an upgrade as a guaranteed event. If management or any single line indoc captain decides they don't like you, tough luck (however, if you're a $h1t pilot and they're really desperate for a skipper, congratulations, here are the keys to a death tube). Things have gone downhill.

Oh, and there is talk of a b pay scale for new hires in the next contract. Yes, a b-scale at a northern operator.

And yes, any aircraft run with dual crew SOPs like the Metro II/III at PAG you can log the SIC time. How do you think anybody upgrades at PAG? Read a book.

Godspeed,

PROC_HDG

[FOD_Vacuum]

I jumped ship at PAG. I was one of those 250 hour wonders. The last posters comments on the wait times and training department are bang on accurate. I knew it would take 2+ years to see the cockpit. Half the rampies I used to work with two years ago are still chucking bags to this day, and their IFR has long expired. Meanwhile I am now laughing, waiting for my ATPL to come in the mail any day now along with an interview at Jazz. Best move I ever did. In my opinion, Perimeter is overrated with this fake brand of "the place to be". It is a 703/704/705 company just like every other out there with its pros and cons. If you do end up jumping through all the holes to fly a Metro, by all means go for it. Get your hours, have some fun, fly safe and then move on. (PS I never did a sim eval or attempted training at PAG, nor do I have bitter feelings towards Perimeter. I left on good terms after giving them my two weeks notice.)

[Illya Kuryakin]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I have been working the ground at Perimeter now for close to a year in Thompson. After a year of waiting there are still about a dozen or so guys/gals up here who are "ahead" of me in terms of ground seniority (yeah, that's a thing). Movement has come to a halt, and rumor has it nobody is going to the flight-line within the next 6 months. When I first got up here most of the new F/Os only waited a year (some less). Recently its been more like 1.5 years, but over the time I've been here I've only seen 4 ground guys go to training. If you do the math, that makes another 3 years on the ramp for me . Careful what you wish for, Perimeter used to be a quick way to get some multi-turbine time, not so much these days.

Good Luck,

RC

And.....you're still there? WHY?
Illya

[FL7377]

You never know, there could be reasons to stay for +2 years on the ground. I'm sure a company the size of Perimeter pays thier ground staff a livable wage, with a health care plan and matching RRSP contributions.

Even if your not living the dream at least you can survive while saving for retirement and getting your teeth fixed.

Things could be worse, you could be an unemployed 250 hour pilot?

[cdnpilot77]

What's the cost to remain current to be able to hold onto your basic skill set you learned in your first 250 and not get pushed aside by a CCP when you don't met "his" standard, ask around of how many people that's happened to! Or, how much does it cost to renew your Group 1 IFR? A livable wage doesn't mean much if you have to start at square one 2-3 years down the road. At the end of 2-3 years, you could still be an unemployed 250hr pilot.

[cdnpilot77]

I guess the moral of the story is that in aviation, the only guarantee, is that there are NO guarantees!!

[Laner]

I'm sure if you're willing to be a rampie (nothing like aiming high!) there should be lots. I'm sure Wasaya can "use" you. It's what that do.....just to name one.
Illya

what does this even mean?

there are literally no jobs that will put you in the right seat immediately unless you are extremely lucky to win an award at college, get an interview, and get hired (Jazz and Georgian offered such awards at my school).... it happens, but these are extremely rare cases.

I suppose you can instruct and log PIC time immediately, however that's 10K give or take a few grand on top of your already expensive training (depending on where you go).... and that's if you even get a job immediately, friends of mine finished their ratings last fall and are still struggling to find a job in Canada.

Sure its hard work on the ramp but I don't see anything wrong with proving your worth (and your smarts) to a company before they put you in an airplane..... not to mention its a good workout, friends of mine have lost a ton of weight after moving to the north (for all you big boys out there, myself included). The good thing is that there is always movement on the ramp, some places longer than others but that's just the nature of the beast.

In reference to Perimeter, I have heard waits can be upwards of 2 years on the ramp, but are usually around 12-18 months.

[esp803]

there are literally no jobs that will put you in the right seat immediately

Why aim so low? I got the left seat of a non flight training airplane as my first gig, and know many others who have as well. If you're willing to move to Norman Wells for the ramp, you can certainly move somewhere that will give you an airplane to play with right off the bat.

E

[Cat Driver]

Sure its hard work on the ramp but I don't see anything wrong with proving your worth (and your smarts) to a company before they put you in an airplane..

If you have a commercial Pilot license when you apply for a job flying you have proved you are qualified to fly as a commercial pilot.

If you turn out to not be suitable as an employee they will get rid of you.

Working the ramp has very little to teach you about flying an airplane.

[Big Pistons Forever]

If you have a commercial Pilot license when you apply for a job flying you have proved you are qualified to fly as a commercial pilot.

I disagree. A Canadian CPL is 80 hrs of ground school of which half is just a rehash of the PPL and the CPL flight test is the PPL flight test to a very slightly higher standard. Bottom line: You don't know shit.
I don't have a problem with someone doing some ramp time to

1) Prove they fit in with the operation and prove they have a good work ethic and attitude, and

2) Learn about the real world of commercial operations.

However unfortunately some operators abuse rampies and dispatchers. By the 12 Month mark on the ramp you have learned everything you are going to and have proved yourself, or not, and you should be moving to a flying position.

[FL7377]

If you have a commercial Pilot license when you apply for a job flying you have proved you are qualified to fly as a commercial pilot.

I disagree. A Canadian CPL is 80 hrs of ground school of which half is just a rehash of the PPL and the CPL flight test is the PPL flight test to a very slightly higher standard. Bottom line: You don't know shit.
I don't have a problem with someone doing some ramp time to

1) Prove they fit in with the operation and prove they have a good work ethic and attitude, and

2) Learn about the real world of commercial operations.

However unfortunately some operators abuse rampies and dispatchers. By the 12 Month mark on the ramp you have learned everything you are going to and have proved yourself, or not, and you should be moving to a flying position.

+1 to that!

If movement slows down, hopefully Perimeter management stops hiring CPL's and bring in more non-pilots to work ground positions.

[North Shore]

^Yah, like that's going to happen. You think that a YTH local is going to put up with minimum wage on the ramp in February, with all of the BS that entails, when s/he could work at Walmart/McD's etc, for the same amount? Not only that, but pilots will work like dogs for that wage, and come back for more, because they'd be scared (probably quite rightly) that not doing so would jeopardize their shot at a right seat.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Things could be worse, you could be an unemployed 250 hour pilot?

Ah, but you ARE an unemployed 250 hour PILOT! You are unemployed AS a pilot. Same way you'd be unemployed as a pilot, if you were flipping burgers.
Only a pilot could justify the waste of two years on a ramp, and call it "employment".
Time to kick in with the "learning the business" bull Shiite.
Illya

[Illya Kuryakin]

If you have a commercial Pilot license when you apply for a job flying you have proved you are qualified to fly as a commercial pilot.
.

BINGO! Seems to have nothing to do with literacy however.
Illya

[Diadem]

Paying for acting lessons doesn't make one an actor, and it certainly doesn't entitle one to a job. If you go to acting school and then refuse to take any job that doesn't put you in a movie, you're going to go hungry pretty quickly. You could go and work as a waiter while you wait for auditions, or you could start working as a production assistant to learn about the business and make connections. Either way, you aren't a professional actor just because you went to school; you have to be working as an actor first.

[Kosiw]

Another thread hijacked by the two resident narcissists

Perimeter, Calm Air, Keewatin, Bearskin and Provincial, all owned by the Exchange Income Corporation, which makes big money and pays dividends to its investors from the profits of these airlines, yet put little back into these companies and the employees have not benefited just look at the wages, so who is the real problem?

http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stock ... ker=EIF:CN

[FL7377]

Things could be worse, you could be an unemployed 250 hour pilot?

Ah, but you ARE an unemployed 250 hour PILOT! You are unemployed AS a pilot. Same way you'd be unemployed as a pilot, if you were flipping burgers.
Only a pilot could justify the waste of two years on a ramp, and call it "employment".
Time to kick in with the "learning the business" bull Shiite.
Illya

Oh course you are correct Illya, working on the ramp means you are unemployed as a Pilot. But you're not unemployed as a worker.

My advise to any one working on a ramp anywhere is; unless your flying gig is in the bag, keep applying for flying jobs!!

The spring is upon us, lets see how many direct entry flying jobs that only ask for 200 hrs and NO ramp time appear in the next few months.

[xsbank]

You can learn 95% about a commercial operation in a month, they can learn 100% about you in a week. I'll say it again, unless your ramp job includes a program to get you checked out, you are wasting your time. If you are willing to work the ramp and are actually looking for a ramp job, at least you are opening up spots for others to get the flying jobs.

My first job was with 240 hours, hired as a (possible) pilot (when the ice would go out) but they put me to work building docks at somewhere north of La Ronge. They watched me for a week then they checked me out on a 180 on floats. Flew the first 3 weeks out of a camp unsupervised then charters all summer until the snow flew.

Good luck (or I should say "break a leg"?) to all job hunters this year!

[xsbank]

I would say very few jobs are actually advertised.