Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

[Illya Kuryakin]

Time, airlines already use psyc tests. You are correct about his TT having nothing to do with it. The problem here, is the (knee jerk reaction to 9/11) cockpit doors.
CNN will be on this, like Oprah on a honey ham, till the Yanks have a school shooting.
Pity, he'll become a household name. Makes your average serial killers look like Boy Scouts.
Illya

[cncpc]

I'm not really disputing the "suicide" theory, but all the facts aren't really there yet.

The fact the guy was breathing does not mean he was not incapacitated.

I don't know how the CVR could show the pilot pushed a button to start the descent. Until the FDR is found workable, that is speculation.

[FICU]

Also as Illya said, why the entire world fleet isn't grounded this morning to have the cockpit doors REMOVED, ill never know?

It's called "risk management". Risk management is everything aviation.

You honestly believe that locked cockpit doors haven't been a successful deterrent to hijacking and terrorist attacks since 9/11? If not why did the terrorists resort to shoe and underwear bombs? Because the doors were locked.

[bob99]

Also as Illya said, why the entire world fleet isn't grounded this morning to have the cockpit doors REMOVED, ill never know?

It's called "risk management". Risk management is everything aviation.

You honestly believe that locked cockpit doors haven't been a successful deterrent to hijacking and terrorist attacks since 9/11? If not why did the terrorists resort to shoe and underwear bombs? Because the doors were locked.

Exactly. There's ~150 passengers to 2 pilots. The likelihood of having a pax that wants to take down a plane should far exceed that of a pilot wanting to take it down. I'm happy to keep the doors on.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Also as Illya said, why the entire world fleet isn't grounded this morning to have the cockpit doors REMOVED, ill never know?

It's called "risk management". Risk management is everything aviation.

You honestly believe that locked cockpit doors haven't been a successful deterrent to hijacking and terrorist attacks since 9/11? If not why did the terrorists resort to shoe and underwear bombs? Because the doors were locked.

Exactly. There's ~150 passengers to 2 pilots. The likelihood of having a pax that wants to take down a plane should far exceed that of a pilot wanting to take it down. I'm happy to keep the doors on.

You're in denial. If someone really wants to take out an airliner, they can get a shoulder launch STI ger missile or equivalent in a third world bizarre for the price of ten chickens. The cockpit doors have caused many deaths, with direct evidence. Your theory is pure fantasy.
Illya

[Illya Kuryakin]

Also as Illya said, why the entire world fleet isn't grounded this morning to have the cockpit doors REMOVED, ill never know?

It's called "risk management". Risk management is everything aviation.

You honestly believe that locked cockpit doors haven't been a successful deterrent to hijacking and terrorist attacks since 9/11? If not why did the terrorists resort to shoe and underwear bombs? Because the doors were locked.

Your theory has zero substance. Where's your evidence that the locked door has prevented just ONE hijacking? Just ONE.
Meanwhile, there have been over 500 deaths, due DIRECTLY to locked cockpit doors.
The 747 that crashed in Scotland, due to a bomb on board was well before the locked cockpit door era.
Your serve.
Illya

[Donald]

Operation of the door and access to the FD. Use some common sense.

Good luck keeping it confidential, medias are going to dig it.
All over social medias people are providing informations.

If that doesn't bother you, do you mind posting your address, what type of home security system you have, how to defeat it, and when you won't be home?
Thanks.

[Alberta_x51]

Some good logic in the posts. The balance of probabilities favours the locking of cockpit doors.

We can bet that every airline will now insist on pilots having one of the passenger service crew
or even a marshal in the cockpit in the event that a pilot needs to go to the bathroom.

Then there will be the next improvement in extended cockpits with their own bathroom, galley and sleeping quarters all with a locked door to the outside world.

That again wont's stop one crazed person in the cockpit from killing everyone else.

I've watched as one very good airline did some interviews with 3 very talented people
and the person whose role it was to keep silent and write their qualified observations was finally ignored.

Together they did spot most of the symptoms of his personality disorder and incredible record that did not stop them hiring him because he had the time that was in short supply at the time. At that time, they did not do simulator evaluations and I doubt that they do now. That hopefully will change.


The moral of that story is standards can get thrown out the window if they are desperate for the qualifications and experience.

[Flying Low]

I'm not really disputing the "suicide" theory, but all the facts aren't really there yet.

The fact the guy was breathing does not mean he was not incapacitated.

I don't know how the CVR could show the pilot pushed a button to start the descent. Until the FDR is found workable, that is speculation.

Very unlikely that's it's subtle incapacitation. Someone inside had to refuse entry...unless the door is jammed.

[thirdtimecharm]

Europeans extreemely fantastic low cost system with wannabees who pay over +100 000€ in order to buy a seat in an airbus. They will now introduce the 2000€ psychological screening test.

Out of curiosity do we know how much this FO was getting paid or was paying to sit in his seat?

Thoughts are with the families of everyone involved.

[ahramin]

Yep, sure glad we have these locked reinforced cockpit doors to protect us from the mythical terrorists.

If the mythical terrorists do storm the cockpit and there's no door, the passengers are going to correct the situation very quickly. If there is a door they can lock themselves behind after gaining access while the door is open, it's not going to be so easy.

[armchair]

Cockpit doors will likely stay, and procedures to always have at least 2 crews in cockpit at all times will be implemented industry-wide. Having a 3rd person such as a marshall up front may sound like overkill but could be adopted by some airlines in the near future.

The theory of incapacitation for co-pilot not getting much hold in the news either. Deliberate act seems to be the scenario.

As someone else said, in the wake of this and also MH370, I think the day an operator can take over control of the aircraft remotely is not far fetched. In fact, we are getting closer to not needing pilots anymore.

Sick.

[Kzanol]

Meanwhile, there have been over 500 deaths, due DIRECTLY to locked cockpit doors.
Illya

Over how many years? 2996 deaths on 9/11 alone. Keep the doors, mandate the FA replacement on the flight deck perhaps.

[photofly]

Cockpit doors will likely stay, and procedures to always have at least 2 crews in cockpit at all times will be implemented industry-wide. Having a 3rd person such as a marshall up front may sound like overkill but could be adopted by some airlines in the near future.

The theory of incapacitation for co-pilot not getting much hold in the news either. Deliberate act seems to be the scenario.

As someone else said, in the wake of this and also MH370, I think the day an operator can take over control of the aircraft remotely is not far fetched. In fact, we are getting closer to not needing pilots anymore.

Sick.

So when the first pilot goes to the bathroom, what's to stop the marshall shooting the second pilot and deliberately crashing the plane? A second marshall? We're going to need bigger cockpits, fairly soon.

Everyone knows the joke about having one pilot and a dog. Once again, life imitates art.

[floydfrank]

I figure these jerks from CNN should be sued till they go off the air. They parrot that the first officer deliberately flew into the ground. They are not a judge and jury, they do not have a right to come to that conclusion and broadcast it. The family of that dead pilot can all now go out and blow their brains out, their lives are finished.

[photofly]

I figure these jerks from CNN should be sued till they go off the air. They parrot that the first officer deliberately flew into the ground. They are not a judge and jury, they do not have a right to come to that conclusion and broadcast it. The family of that dead pilot can all now go out and blow their brains out, their lives are finished.

It's actually the French prosecutor who is responsible for the story, not CNN.

[FICU]

Your theory has zero substance. Where's your evidence that the locked door has prevented just ONE hijacking? Just ONE.
Meanwhile, there have been over 500 deaths, due DIRECTLY to locked cockpit doors.
The 747 that crashed in Scotland, due to a bomb on board was well before the locked cockpit door era.
Your serve.
Illya

The evidence is common sense considering on 1 day in September around 3000 people were killed because of unlocked cockpit doors.

Game, set, and match.

[photofly]

Your theory has zero substance. Where's your evidence that the locked door has prevented just ONE hijacking? Just ONE.
Meanwhile, there have been over 500 deaths, due DIRECTLY to locked cockpit doors.
The 747 that crashed in Scotland, due to a bomb on board was well before the locked cockpit door era.
Your serve.
Illya

The evidence is common sense considering on 1 day in September around 3000 people were killed because of unlocked cockpit doors.

Game, set, and match.

I don't think the unlocked cockpit doors themselves caused anyone to die - it was the hijackers. There are many ways to attempt to prevent that from happening again, and the point being raised here is that the collateral cost of a locked cockpit doors means it's not an appropriate one.

[navajo_jay]

I don't understand why ppl are focusing on is low hrs... If it was a pilot mistake, then I can understand. Depression as noting to do with hours, it could of append to a more experience pilot if that was the case.

I don't know... a guy with 630hrs flying an Airbus. He probably paid 70 000 Euro to get his licence at Lufhansa flight shcool, he is making shit money with crazy debt living at mom and dad. A lot of people would be depressed owing that much money. I'm not saying that I approve what he did just that the industry is becoming kcuf up!

[zulutime]

I'm not really disputing the "suicide" theory, but all the facts aren't really there yet.

The fact the guy was breathing does not mean he was not incapacitated.

I don't know how the CVR could show the pilot pushed a button to start the descent. Until the FDR is found workable, that is speculation.

Not speculation. ADS-B sends information from the aircraft to ground based stations that proved conclusively that the FO adjusted the altitude from 38,000 ft down to 100 ft with a rate of descent that would not be considered an Emergency descent. This was NOT suicide. This was MURDER! "Plane" and simple.

You can't make anything 100% foolproof. I don't care what system you have in place there will ALWAYS be a way around it. If one is so inclined to find it.

[FICU]

I don't think the unlocked cockpit doors themselves caused anyone to die - it was the hijackers.

Had the doors been reinforced and locked the jets would not have been taken over, the twin towers would still be standing, and the world would probably be a little different today.

Locked doors should have been in place since the 70s but airlines don't want to spend money. Again, risk management and after 9/11 they decided there was too much of a risk. It only took 3000 people to die in 1 day to get them to spend some money on doors.

[aerodude]

I don't know... a guy with 630hrs flying an Airbus. He probably paid 70 000 Euro to get his licence at Lufhansa flight shcool, he is making shit money with crazy debt living at mom and dad. A lot of people would be depressed owing that much money. I'm not saying that I approve what he did just that the industry is becoming kcuf up!

There is no excuse whatsoever for what this guy did to 150+ people if it is indeed true. It's murder/coward.

But one has to think
-what debt level / payscale condition he was in, considering the amount you must spend to get hired at these low cost airlines. I'm imagining 100k+ debt for a 250 hour wonder.

-Low cost airlines have high hour schedule / low days off. Did that fatigue cause problems in his state of mind?

I wonder if the capitalist based media will follow up on that part?

[Donald]

You can't make anything 100% foolproof. I don't care what system you have in place there will ALWAYS be a way around it. If one is so inclined to find it.

Exactly.

[cncpc]

I'm not really disputing the "suicide" theory, but all the facts aren't really there yet.

The fact the guy was breathing does not mean he was not incapacitated.

I don't know how the CVR could show the pilot pushed a button to start the descent. Until the FDR is found workable, that is speculation.

Very unlikely that's it's subtle incapacitation. Someone inside had to refuse entry...unless the door is jammed.

Your point is well made. I realized after I made this post that the pilot inside would have had to have deliberately locked the door, probably twice in the eight minutes given that there is a five minute max on the lockout.

Another poster has made a statement that the ADS-B system transmits what the altitude selector is set at as well as the rate of descent. I can see that it transmits the rate of descent, but nothing on what the target altitude is. I do accept that it is reasonable to assume that if the co-pilot deliberately locked the door, he deliberately initiated and maintained the descent in whatever manner was available to him, including pushing a button.

[flyinthebug]

I figure these jerks from CNN should be sued till they go off the air. They parrot that the first officer deliberately flew into the ground. They are not a judge and jury, they do not have a right to come to that conclusion and broadcast it. The family of that dead pilot can all now go out and blow their brains out, their lives are finished.

Ya know, its ok to debate whether we should have reinforced cockpit doors or not, or whether an air marshall would have made a difference in various cases... but you are either uneducated or ignorant to dismiss the French PROSECUTOR`s words and findings. This isnt something CNN or FOX made up. The French prosecutor was given the details from the CVR. He likely even listened to it.

You are REALLY off base with your comments.

No one can be judge or jury now. BUT maybe we can learn from our mistakes.

I understand your frustration with the talking heads on cable news, but to suggest they should be sued for repeating what they were told by a very reliable and educated source is simply ignornant.

RIP to all those lost in this tragedy.
Fly safe all (you too floydfrank).