How many hours to get PPL

[kanders]

I am new to this site and just signed up for ground school yesterday. I'm sure this question has been asked dozens of times on this forum but I did a search and can't find any posts so here it goes. What is the average amount of hours needed to get a basic Private pilots License. I understand that there are many factors that contribute to a large difference from person to person but I am getting a huge difference in opinions about an average. I am in my early 50's and hope to be flying 3 - 4 days a week this summer since I am semi retired. Some have said that 60 hrs(dual and solo) is doable, some have suggested between 60 and 100 hrs. I would love to hear from as many pilots as possible. Thanks

[Broken Slinky]

45 hours is the minimum required by TC. Typically the more often you fly the quicker you'll absorb the skills so the closer to the minimum you'd be. I was in my late 30s and flew 10-15 hours a month. I did mine in 62 hours. That time included a few club competitions and several extra hours of dual instruction to hammer down the skills required for the test. Specifically forced approaches, short and soft field landings, upper air work (trying to keep the altitudes as tight as possible). I probably could have done it in less but any time I didn't feel comfortable with something, I requested more dual stick time to get it into my thick skull.
If you're approaching 80-100 hours and flying frequently, start inquiring with your instructor as to why. Also don't look at the hours as "I must do it in 45". Any hour of supervised stick time will only make you a better pilot in the long run. Get out there and fly in different weather, temps, airspaces, etc... Land at as many different sized aerodromes as you can with an instructor. Push yourself outside of your comfort level. That'll prepare you well for those times that silly situations occur.

[jump154]

I did mine at 38, took 96 hours over 3 years. In there, there were a few long breaks (not always voluntary, I think my record one winter was 12 consecutive cancelled flights) which inevitably meant a few flight to get back to where I was. Plus I had a brain freeze with a couple of excercises pre flight test which needed some attention. I was only flying once per week- when I managed to fly a couple of times I progressed quicker, but that was all my calandar would allow.

In comparison, my Daughter got her license through the cadet program last summer in 48 hours. They are flying every day, and studying when not flying. IMO that is about the ideal learning conditions to get done in minimum time.

So, fly regularly - don't focus on nunber of hours but how well you are doing. You will hit a wall at some point, and you will get through it. Goal is to be a competent Pilot. Then after PPL pick something else to learn and never stop learning. Last point, you are doing it for fun - don't loose sight of that!

[ahramin]

Mine took 45 hours over 7 weeks.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Mine took 30 hours over about six months.

[New_PIC]

Mine took 55 hours, including the flight test, over about 30 years. That was with about a 27 year break after the first 17 hours.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Kander

it is impossible to get your PPL in 30 hrs and unusual for somebody in your circumstances to do it in 45. I would suggest you budget for 55 to 60 hours.

Like everything else in life the harder you work the faster the training will go. The secret to successful flight training is good communication between you and your instructor. If you ever feel that is not happening than talk to your CFI.

How long you took to get your license is a poor measure of training success. The score you get on your flight test is a better one, but in the end the goal is to be a safe and confident pilot. It takes as long as it takes

[Big Pistons Forever]

Mine took 45 hours over 7 weeks.

The original poster says he is in his 50's, how old were you when you did your PPL ?

[kanders]

Thanks for all of your responses. With the research I had done in the last year, I had figured it would be in the 60 hour range. After signing up at the flight school and telling them that I had planned to fly 3 - 4 days a week and hoped to be done in that 60 hour range, I was surprised when they smiled politely and suggested 60 - 100 hours.
So my next question is, how do you know when you are ready for the test? Is it your instructor who tells you they feel you are ready, is it how confident you feel personally (obviously after the minimum requirements are met) or a combination of the two. Should I be concerned if an instructor and CFI at the school both think it will be much higher hours (60 - 100).

[white_knuckle_flyer]

It is definitely a combination of your instructor's endorsement and your own self-evaluation that will determine if/when you are ready. Because your instructor will not want to risk his/her reputation by having you fail your flight test. Moreover, depending on the school, the instructor may have been groomed to extend your learning hours to a certain number, usually a number that is higher than necessary. As a result of these two factors, it is more likely that you will feel ready before your instructor does. However, since you are an older dude, like I was when I got my PPL, you likely have a good feel for your abilities, and will not fool yourself into thinking you are ready when you still have a few misgivings.

The lion's share of criticisms against high PPL flying hours is that you are being exploited by the school and paying for unnecessary hours in the air. This is often true to a degree, but you have to also consider that your training is not over once you get that PPL. Someone might get their PPL is 50 hours and spend the next 20 hours smashing bugs within a 30 mile radius of the airport. In many ways, this is no different from taking 70 hours to get your PPL. What's the diff ? On the other hand, if you are a 45 hour wonder and you want to start flying overnight trips on the eve of your PPL, then by all means have at it and keep pushing the instructor until he/she can no longer deny that you are ready for the flight test. However, I think these people are pretty rare and even more rare when they are 50 yrs old.

Not knowing you at all, or where you will be doing your training, I would make my best estimate at 70 hours with a 10 hour margin of error.

My 2 cents.

[New_PIC]

I came in on the low side of these estimates and I was doing it wrong. My first 17 hours took over a year, mostly flying once or twice a month but sometimes skipping a month. In that time I flew with a sequence of three different instructors, roughly five or six hours each. Fast forward to my mid fifties. I flew slightly more often but it still took nearly two years to get the next thirty-some hours.

I'm trying to think what I may have been doing right that could be useful advice. I'm no rocket surgeon, but I did read a lot and thought about what I read. "From the Ground Up" was useful as was the online "Aeronautical Information Manual" (AIM), however don't be afraid to go read the referenced CAR's too. Learn the rules. It's worthwhile to read the Flight Training Manual carefully, one lesson at a time, and make sure you understand each lesson. Read everything you can, even these forums, though you may have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

If you don't have one, get a toy or model airplane that you can play with; making engine noises is optional. Think about how the control surfaces would be moving, what the airflow does, why you would use rudder when banking, etc. Look up at the sky and learn what the clouds mean. Pay attention to the weather forecasts and recognize the changes outside, when the predictions are right and when they're wrong.

Have fun! Don't stress if something isn't working out easily. Maybe there's another way to look at it or maybe it'll just take some more work. Just keep working at it. Good Luck!

[photofly]

how do you know when you are ready for the test?

The test - and what you need to do to pass - isn't a mysterious and arcane secret process. The flight test guide is here:
https://www.tc.gc.ca/Publications/en/tp ... 13723e.pdf

It contains clear and easy to understand details of every exercise you will have to do on the ground and in the air, along with a comprehensive marking guide. (If you can make head or tail of some of the CARs, the FTG should be a cake-walk.)

When you are confident you can get a score of 3 or 4 on every exercise, you are ready for the flight test. If you think you are, and your instructor says you aren't, he or she may be correct, but they should be able to point out exactly which exercises still need work and why.

[LousyFisherman]

Age 48, Time to PPL, 90 hours in 4 months, I tried to fly 5 days a week averaged 4, 2 hour lessons, I usually booked 1.6 hours. Trust me, I was fscking dedicated.

50 hours for the syllabus, 20 hours crosswinds just before ready to solo (worth every hour of it, even if I still can't crab and kick ), 20 hours milked.

Big name school with a good reputation. Giving credit where credit is due, I did receive quality instruction, and management has changed since my experience. Other hours were spent learning the Diamond 20. Again worth every penny, the 2 aircraft spin very differently.

I had to be extremely forceful approaching unpleasant in order to take my flight test. The school then gave me the wrong POH
(different model) for the plane I was renting for the test, I had a nice examiner.

I had a single 2 on the flight test, during the simulated electric failure, I forgot to close the vent.

Fly every day, go to a small school. 70 hours would be the most I would expect to pay if I was flying 4 days a week overall. Make sure there is lots of variety in there.

The time really doesn't matter because you will be paying for lots of dual in the future anyways. At least you will be if you are smart

YMMV
LF

[ahramin]

BPF: 17.

7 years ago a 45 year old client of mine with no previous aviation experience completed his private licence over the course of a year split between two schools all the while managing his company (50 employees). Total time 45 hours.

For a lot of people, flying an airplane simply isn't that hard.

[7ECA]

Six months, and 58.3 hours later, the PPL was done, flying out of CZBB. Started September 2011, done February 2012.

Odds are I could have finished in fewer than six months, if I had been flying in the Spring/Summer, but Fall and Winter flying was a great experience, wind and turbulence, precipitation, etc, made it worthwhile in my opinion. Although, that particular Winter was pretty ideal on the South Coast - I was easily able to get in XC time in December with a few stretches of cold and clear weather.

[Big Pistons Forever]

BPF: 17.

7 years ago a 45 year old client of mine with no previous aviation experience completed his private licence over the course of a year split between two schools all the while managing his company (50 employees). Total time 45 hours.

For a lot of people, flying an airplane simply isn't that hard.

I once had a student who got born with a triple dose of the pilot gene. It took him three circuits to learn how to land. After that every landing he did was good enough to pass the PPL flight test. Last I heard he was at test pilot school and was going to be an RCAF test pilot on the CF18

So absolutely what your 45 year old friend did can and does happen. All I can say is that in my experience older PPL students take longer than younger ones. I have personally never seen a 50 + year old PPL do his license in 45 hrs. To imply this is what he should be anticipating is IMO not helpful or realistic. He should not feel he has failed, or is a lesser pilot if it takes a little longer.

The test for his flight training should be two fold

1) Am I making progress in learning how to fly

2) Am I enjoying the experience.

Obviously there is going to be the odd flight that does not go well but if he has a series of flights that don't meet the test than he needs to sit down with his instructor and the CFI and ask some questions.

[Rookie50]

Six months, and 58.3 hours later, the PPL was done, flying out of CZBB. Started September 2011, done February 2012.

Odds are I could have finished in fewer than six months, if I had been flying in the Spring/Summer, but Fall and Winter flying was a great experience, wind and turbulence, precipitation, etc, made it worthwhile in my opinion. Although, that particular Winter was pretty ideal on the South Coast - I was easily able to get in XC time in December with a few stretches of cold and clear weather.

Same training months and # hours for me. Maybe a touch longer than it could have been, but I got good training out of it.

It's not a contest. It's the total sum of the training value, not the precise hours that should matter.

[trey kule]

I am a bit unclear as why training is requiring so much more time. The basic skills have not changed. Training aircraft still typically have one engine, a control column, two wings...you get the idea.
Yes , the good folks have added regulations. A few hours of IFwork. More crosscountry. But most of all the new stuff to be learned has very little to do with meeting the objectives of a PPL when it comes to flight time.

But when you get rid of all the flavours of the month, and get right down to it, the question no one seems to ask is if the training is being done as efficiently as possible. Looking through new CPL log books I see over and over how an FTU could have reduced the flight hours simply by better organizing the training. Someone once posted that I was being to picky about a . 1 or .2 here and there. To wuote a famous song...its amazing how it grows..

If someone told me it was going to take them 80 to 100 hours to bring me to a ppl standard , I would be looking for a new flight school. Yes, they have to meet a standard, but good grief, how long does that really need to take... There are still only some 23 air exercises I think...no new ones. It seems it just is taking longer.

To the OP. If you are flying 4 times a week.do the preparation, and, just as importantly get a good instructor, you should be finished long before 55 hours, if you are a typical student. Did I mention how important a good instructor is?

[PilotDAR]

Kanders,

Take another perspective on "getting your PPL".... Yes, you can, and should do this, but it just a milestone along a path, an important one, but just a milestone none the less.

As you undertake training, think of four significant stages: After some training, you realize that you can fly a plane! Then, after some more training, and lots of dedicated practice, you'll be good at flying a plane. Then, after some study, and cleaning up loose ends in skills, you'll have demonstrated that you meet a minimum skill requirement to be issued a PPL. Then, after some considerable amount of building experience along the way, you will be a skilled and competent pilot in a certain class of aircraft...

I like to think that your life's goal (and reason for asking the question her) is to be a skilled and competent pilot one day. Plan and work toward that, and along the way, you'll have a PPL. The only real significance in that is bragging rights, and you can take unsuspecting passengers for a fly. Other than that, it's a mile stone, not an endpoint in your planning.

I once knew a fellow who passed his PPL testing, received the license, and never flew again. Everyone else I have ever known wanted to fly more. I've earned two PPLs in life. The first one, I was flying around for months, waiting to be old enough to be issued the license (so the hours are not really relevant. The other, I just wanted to fly, and did not bother with the license, as I was flying, what did I care? But, then a kind fellow offered me a type endorsement, and I accepted, but had to finish my PPL to have a license to endorse.

While very experienced and knowledgeable posters here spar about the relevance of the good advice they are offering you, think less about the numbers, and more about why you want to do it. Don't plan an endpoint to a passion!

[SuperchargedRS]

National average is about 60hrs.

Be sure you fly at least twice a week, otherwise you'll log more and pay more.

[trey kule]

Consider when you toss out national averages, how the Air Cadet program skews that number down.

And consider what that might actually be trlling us all about the quality of instruction being given today.

It is not always the student that is responsible for taking longer to reach the standard.though no FTU ever mentions improvement on their side. They all offer quality instruction and it is entirely the student who requires all those extra hours..

PilotDar is correct though. The PPL is just a waypoint on the journey. On the other hand, it seems fsir enough not to allow an FTU to use that as a reason to provide crappy instruction.. It is about value for the money spent. And the original question is a fair one, though maybe one should start a thread on what FTUs think they could do to reduce the training hours....cue the crickets chirping.....

To the OP.
Find a school that does not justify their training times on national averages. You will not find one who will ever tell you they are on the high side. The key is a goid instructor, and for someone walking into a flight school, determining that in advance is difficult.
Good luck. Enjoy the journey.

[trey kule]

If you are referring to me instructor bashing, you are being oversensitive.

I was responding to a post that stated the national average, and the perception that that is normal and should be expected.

But the truth is a good instructor will minimize the training time. And from what I have seen lately,
They are a rare breed.

It is not about the lowest cost BPF. It is about value for the money spent. No student should be paying for their instructor to doze on a flight. Or have their instructor text or take calls during briefings.
That is not instructor bashing. That is what is happening, and it needs to change rather than explaining about national averages taking 20 hours more than the minimum. The basic flight skills that should be being taught have not changed..so why does it take an average of 20 hours more than the minimum? And what can flight schools do to get the student to the standard in fewer hours other than tell the student it is all up to them?

Btw. I hope to renew my instructor rating in the next year . Will see if I can practice what I preach.


.

[Pop n Fresh]

How much of the extra 20 hours to PPL is because I the student was afraid of simple non-flight test things like, what do I say on the radio, do these pants make my ass look fat and how does the GPS work?

[Shiny Side Up]

I'm not sure what to think about this topic anymore, there's a lot more to it than meets the eye. Lately, I just finished what I am hoping is my last PPL student. They passed the flight test at about 40 hours. If things work out right they will be exactly at 45 hours when they are signed off for a license. A last experiment to make sure I know it could be done. The examiner was somewhat shocked when they saw that the candidate had less than 60 hours. Now that said, knowing I wanted to try this, I hand picked the student. Another bit of a test to see if I could read who was capable, when they walked through the door and said they had ground school complete and figured out a schedule on their own about how they wanted to complete it, well that was a slam dunk. 17 years old and asked all the questions. More impressive was that they paid for most of it themselves. By my count, they came in a little under $10K to complete the license.

The point is that it takes two to do this tango, you need a good instructor and you need a good student. You'll get what you put into it. If someone asks me about doing it in minimum time, I'll tell them how it needs to be done and generally if they can stick with it, it will be done.

Now that said there are a lot of factors that alter the time until completion. It helps if you start young, anyone who's good at flying can't dispute this. Its the same if you want to be good at anything. You also have to dedicate the time. Every hour you do in the plane expect to put in an hour on the ground at the airport and two hours at home. Number of lessons a week seems to be a chief determining factor as well as how much time you put in when not in the airplane. My advice would also be to find a quiet uncontrolled airport to learn at. It also helps to have basic reading and writing skills, in your instructor's language, and be good at math. The bolded is for the kids reading, stay in school.

I do have to be a bit negative of a lot of instructors, my main beef with them is a somewhat lack of efficiency with time. I recently sat through one instructor who's opinion it was impossible to do a PPL in less than 60 hours, and he was at a quiet uncontrolled airport. Pure BS. It can be done, but both players need to play ball. Personally for me to do it, you have to make me a promise. Twice I've had students who I pushed to get done in 45 hours bail on me on flight test day. Not happy with that, I don't like wasting my time in such a fashion, but there's also been a lot of people who want the license who don't want to do the work.

While being older does stack the odds against you when it comes to reducing completion time, I once completed a PPL at 50 hours, the student was a 55 year old cancer survivor, and the process took 5 years due to complications with that. Best student I ever had, took notes, worked harder than anyone I'd ever seen at it, and definitely wasn't gifted or had any prior experience. Everyone can do it, but it just has to matter enough to them. The best part? I found out the other day that she now flies a Cub. And still is flying.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Shiny......expecting students to take some responsibility for the progress of their training ......that's crazy talk !

Have you forgotten that all of us instructors are incompetent fools only out to cheat students by milking them for unnecessary flying ? You need to get with the program

Seriously though I appreciate the effort you put into the post. The problem is you provided a balanced and nuanced description of the realities of good flight training.

Zander

I hope your training goes well. I used to advise folks to share their experience and ask questions on this forum but I am not sure if that is good advice anymore.