Summit Air Buffalo - Red Cross?

[jspitfire]

A friend of mine got this shot of the Buffalo with some new decals. Anyone know where she's headed?



Jason

[longjon]

Juba, S. Sudan

[godsrcrazy]

I believe this aircraft no longer belongs to Summit. I heard they have sold 1 Buffalo for sure and there is a possible deal on table for the second to be gone as well. Not sure what is going on up North. These guys selling the Buffalo's and First air selling the Herc's. Joe must be smiling now he is the only one left to lift heavy freight.

[threepoint]

Is First Air selling the civil Hercs to the Coulson Group, or are they purchasing from Lynden Air Cargo, does anybody know?

[Donald]

One herc to Safair (for parts?)
One herc to Lynden

[godsrcrazy]

It is a Sad day to see these aircraft all leave Canada. The Canadian aviation industry for Freight just took a huge step backwards in my opinion. The Russians will now be able to bring their Junkers to Canada and operate them rather then places like Africa.

[FL7377]

It is a Sad day to see these aircraft all leave Canada. The Canadian aviation industry for Freight just took a huge step backwards in my opinion. The Russians will now be able to bring their Junkers to Canada and operate them rather then places like Africa.

Russian Junkers to flood the Canadian cargo market, or, ATR 72's (Calm Air), 757 and 767's (Cargojet) comming into the country. I think Canada's cargo needs will be just fine.

[Donald]

With all due respect FL7377, you have no idea what gets hauled around the north.

How many drums of fuel can a 757/767 haul into a 3-5000 foot gravel or ice strip?
What about a new water or home heating truck that an arctic community needs in the middle of winter when the old one breaks down?

I think godsrcrazy could fill you in with more examples.

[FL7377]

With all due respect FL7377, you have no idea what gets hauled around the north.

How many drums of fuel can a 757/767 haul into a 3-5000 foot gravel or ice strip?
What about a new water or home heating truck that an arctic community needs in the middle of winter when the old one breaks down?

I think godsrcrazy could fill you in with more examples.

I agree a 757 isn't a replacement for a Buffalo lol. An ATR in a cargo config will accommodate all your fuel moving requirements into and out of 5000 ft gravel or ice strips. But it does so with an ergonomic cockpit, FMS and well engineered modern engines.

Don't get me wrong, the Buffalo is a beautiful aircraft, piece of Canadian history no doubt. Which is why I'm sure the Canadian Aviation Museum would love to add one to is collection.

[godsrcrazy]

With all due respect FL7377, you have no idea what gets hauled around the north.

How many drums of fuel can a 757/767 haul into a 3-5000 foot gravel or ice strip?
What about a new water or home heating truck that an arctic community needs in the middle of winter when the old one breaks down?

I think godsrcrazy could fill you in with more examples.

I agree a 757 isn't a replacement for a Buffalo lol. An ATR in a cargo config will accommodate all your fuel moving requirements into and out of 5000 ft gravel or ice strips. But it does so with an ergonomic cockpit, FMS and well engineered modern engines.

Don't get me wrong, the Buffalo is a beautiful aircraft, piece of Canadian history no doubt. Which is why I'm sure the Canadian Aviation Museum would love to add one to is collection.

We are not just talking about the Buffalo. The C-130 has played a major part of every industry thru out Northern Canada since the late 60's. There has always been a C-130 in the North. Lets see you pack a generator in a ATR for the Northern communities when the lights go out and their standby craps out after 3 hours. The Herc and Buffalo have done more then one of these missions. There is always calling this an emergency and try and get a Military Herc of which you could probably get one out of Africa faster then these guys move let alone the politics to get the approval to get them to come.

I guess i shouldn't be surprised by your post FL7377 this is typical of people whom have never spent much time in the North and have no idea of what really happens up there. Maybe Discovery can do another episode on Ice Pilots. They can show again how it only took 2 days for the DC4 to get the generator north.

[Donald]

So how would you fix this with an ATR?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/pan ... -1.3019117

[godsrcrazy]

Maybe i missed it but I don't see what aircraft type they are using to do the airlift.

[Donald]

Not sure either, but pretty sure it wasn't an ATR or D8 size aircraft!

[pelmet]

It is a Sad day to see these aircraft all leave Canada. The Canadian aviation industry for Freight just took a huge step backwards in my opinion. The Russians will now be able to bring their Junkers to Canada and operate them rather then places like Africa.

Russian Junkers to flood the Canadian cargo market, or, ATR 72's (Calm Air), 757 and 767's (Cargojet) comming into the country. I think Canada's cargo needs will be just fine.

Tell that to the bulldozer driver who wants to move one into an old mining strip.

[Diadem]

So should these airlines be forced to keep their Buffalos and Hercs in service with crews being paid to sit around on standby, on the off-chance that a generator fails or someone needs a bulldozer moved a couple of times a year? Obviously it's costing more to keep them in service than they make from these contracts that are few and far between, and it's in their best interest to get rid of them. Everybody here is complaining about the airlines' decisions, without considering that it just might not be economically feasible to keep these planes ready to fly, and no one is offering any solutions. Should the government pay the airlines to keep them in service, just in case? Should the airlines keep the aircraft ready and take a loss, out of the goodness of their hearts? All I see here is a lot of lamenting the end of an era, and no sound business advice.

[fish4life]

First air has big door ATR 72's how close is that to getting a generator into the North?

[FL7377]

Personally, I love aviation museums. Looking at the neat old designs of aircraft from yester-year.

But business is business. At some point operating these old birds stops becoming feasible.

If transporting big generators is a problem, communities need to consider selling older larger generators and aquiring smaller newer emergency generators. Leave the big generators for ice roads or sea lift in the summer.

[CID]

Suitable heavy lift aircraft (including the Herc) have been utilized over the last several decades as arctic freighters but inevitably, they are never sustainable. I certainly wouldn't invest in a Herc that would basically sit around most of the time. Even the Hercs that have been used in the Canada for the most part, relied on supplementary income from far away places.

If a community needs a new generator once in a blue moon, there are still options.

As far as the Buffalo go, I personally think it was a mistake for Arctic Sunwing to buy those things. They have a limited life as it is with those engines and insane operating costs. When you get right down to it, the thing doesn't do much more than a big door or fuel hauling ATR. Yes, dimensional loads are troublesome but that is a very small percentage of the required cargo capacity of the north.

[NunavutPA-12]

In 1982, all the material for my house was flown into Coppermine on HPW. It was owned by NWT Air at that time.

I remember asking John Robertson if I could put the charter cost ($18,000 at the time) on my Visa - for the points. I was the first to ask such a question, but he allowed it.

[godsrcrazy]

Suitable heavy lift aircraft (including the Herc) have been utilized over the last several decades as arctic freighters but inevitably, they are never sustainable. I certainly wouldn't invest in a Herc that would basically sit around most of the time. Even the Hercs that have been used in the Canada for the most part, relied on supplementary income from far away places.

If a community needs a new generator once in a blue moon, there are still options.

As far as the Buffalo go, I personally think it was a mistake for Arctic Sunwing to buy those things. They have a limited life as it is with those engines and insane operating costs. When you get right down to it, the thing doesn't do much more than a big door or fuel hauling ATR. Yes, dimensional loads are troublesome but that is a very small percentage of the required cargo capacity of the north.

Really the Herc's sit most of the time. Donald may be able to chime in on this as any time i ever was around Yellowknife they were out flying. But i am not there that much. As for Arctic Sunwest i know the original owners and they told me the buffalos made them nothing but money. The biggest issue with them was keeping parts on the shelves as they were flying 1 of them more hours in one year then the 5 the Canadian military would fly in combined all year. I would love to see an ATR 72 go in and out of places the Buffalo can.

Regardless as i said it will be a sad day in aviation in the north to see these aircraft leave. Do i expect people to keep aircraft around if they are losing money. Of course not.

[Donald]

I'm done with this thread, I'll let Diadem, CID, 73333777, etc, all run off on their tangents.
The point was missed, and I could care less.

We'll have to go for beers at the BK sometime Gods.

[Pop n Fresh]

The days of Canadians being allowed to build planes and trains to help the british company owners improve the area for those living here are over.

I think Canada is going to slowly go back to being pre "European colonial" territory.

As long as there is something resembling this current apology for what jolly engerlund did system, perhaps they will briefly start utilizing plastic planes built in china to bring in essentials such as pop, matches, chips, bullets, disposable diapers, salt, flour, Tylenol and insulin.

Eventually Russia might pop in and get some oil. They won't be polite about it either, they might bring siberians over to colonize parts of the north.

I can't see anyone running private non oil businesses up there making a living for much longer than a decade or maybe two.

[godsrcrazy]

I'm done with this thread, I'll let Diadem, CID, 73333777, etc, all run off on their tangents.
The point was missed, and I could care less.

We'll have to go for beers at the BK sometime Gods.

Plus 1. Never in YK long enough to do a beer at BK thanks for the invite.

Cant wait to see an ATR 72 do this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmjb6TDdB0M

[7ECA]

The days of Canadians being allowed to build planes and trains to help the british company owners improve the area for those living here are over.

I think Canada is going to slowly go back to being pre "European colonial" territory.

Part one, so very true, hell, Viking dropped out of the competition for the FWSAR because the Feds decided that you needed to have a demonstrator built to qualify - Viking of course can't afford to waste money building a brand new Buffalo, only to be told that, surprise surprise, Alenia has been given the contract since day one...

As for going back to the pre-colonial days, I'd say we're a ways off of that. More like we're being turned into 'Merica junior...

[Pop n Fresh]

Except the old grey 'merica just ain't what she used to be. If the oil prices stay low and it gets to the point that Canader can't afford to govern herself ala Newfoundland, if we get absorbed it will just be military bases and wilderness up here.

Vancouver could remain HK east and the GTA will carry on out of spite. Otherwise urban centers will become rather Winnipeg like I fear. The residents that don't go south will be belligerent during the cold seasons.

Kaybek will be an interesting place methinks.

I suspect Viking might eventually license build Buffaloes and Beavers like Fender guitars. They are so far tenaciously holding on, building Canadian twin otters and God bless them for that!