Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

[North Shore]

Simmer down, boys!
Two of our colleagues died tragically and unnecessarily the other day....don't lose sight of that in your battles to determine internet supremacy.

[cncpc]

I have this faint memory that I haven't always gotten on with Boeingboy, but I can't remember what it was over. I will say that the theory he speaks about is NOT an obscure theory. Right now, it seems consistent with the evidence that is known. He has his reasons for not bringing it up, and I'm sure they are good. It may prove not to be the cause, but they need to find all the pieces before we will have a clearer understanding.

I suppose you could make a case that BB is a little dismissive of some theories, but overall he makes, as others do, a good contribution to this discussion.

That is the left wing in the photo. Does anyone have a comment about the gear leg position? Gear extended during the descent for some reason, or just left that way by the impact sequence?

[PointyEngine]

Has there ever been a situation where a commuter style airline (e.g BE 1900 or SW4) where the main door (forward of the engine nacelle) has opened in flight and shed backwards?

On the SW3 (Metro 2) the front door weighs a huge amount, and is a structural part of the airframe. I imagine that would be fairly simple to gauge by the debris on the ground if this had occurred. If that thing came off, it would quickly go back throw the engine, and that amount of disturbance to the prop and nacelle would be catastrophic to flight characteristics.

Just throwing out another idea.

If that gear was intentionally put down, it may have been a result of a wing fire indication. There was a metro in QC where a fire caused structural collapse of the left wing. However, with no Mayday or no other indication of this, who knows...

http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/SW4, ... IRE_LOC%29

[Chuck Ellsworth]

The TSB issues such safety advisories in a timely fashion all the time and as soon as they have the info available.

For those of us who do not understand bureaucratic bafflegab what exactly is the time line of "" in a timely fashion ""?

[JestWet]

Metros have a Trimmable Horizontal Stabilizer similar to that of the Alaska Airlines MD-83 that crashed off the coast of San Francisco in 2000.
About a year or two after that accident, a Carson AME was using a push broom to brush a light dusting of snow off of a Metro that spent the night in YLW. After he climbed up the ladder and started on the tail, he gave about 2 sweeps with the broom and the entire stab came detached from the actuator and just flopped around freely on the tail. You can only imagine what would have happened if this would have come apart in flight.

Just a speculation. I'm sure Carson's maintenance program is all above board but these are old cargo airplanes that have been ridden hard and sometimes things fail.

[rsandor]

TSB announcement says may be in flight break up:

http://m.news1130.com/2015/04/16/plane- ... light-tsb/

[co-joe]

JestWet and rsandor's posts are absolutely fucking terrifying. The sum of all fears.

[boeingboy]

Agreed.

[gimmepars]

TSB says this aircraft dropped 1500m in 20 seconds, which works out to a decent rate of just shy of 15,000fpm.

[cncpc]

TSB says this aircraft dropped 1500m in 20 seconds, which works out to a decent rate of just shy of 15,000fpm.

You'd think it would have to be at full power and vertical to do that.

[gimmepars]

TSB says this aircraft dropped 1500m in 20 seconds, which works out to a decent rate of just shy of 15,000fpm.

You'd think it would have to be at full power and vertical to do that.

I don't. 15000fpm = 148 knots.

[cncpc]

TSB says this aircraft dropped 1500m in 20 seconds, which works out to a decent rate of just shy of 15,000fpm.

You'd think it would have to be at full power and vertical to do that.

I don't. 15000fpm = 148 knots.

Yep, true that. It just seemed like such a big number.

[boeingboy]

From TSB today...

[awitzke]

[Jack Klumpus]

http://www.m2.com/m2/web/story.php/1998 ... 390064BAE0

Bearskin pilots cited for airmanship by pilots' union

WASHINGTON, DC -- Two Bearskin Airlines pilots who
safely landed their aircraft after its horizontal

stabilizer actuator failed on a flight to Winnipeg

last August have been awarded the Superior Airmanship

award from the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA).

ALPA President J. Randolph Babbitt recognized the

efforts of Captain Geoffrey Wheatstone and First

Officer Steve Preston at the Association's annual Air

Safety Awards banquet August 19th.

Captain Wheatstone and First Officer Preston were in

command of Metro Flight JV317 en route from Red Lake

to Winnipeg, Manitoba when the horizontal stabilizer

actuator failed, causing the aircraft to enter a

3.5g, 52-degree climb and stall at 6700 feet. After a

series of climbs and dives by the aircraft, Captain

Wheatstone and First Officer Preston manually

stabilized the plane at 6000 feet, and landed with

the First Officer using the force of both his feet

and arms on the control column to maintain pitch

control and the Captain controlling the ailerons.

According to ALPA Executive Vice President John

Dunlop, "Geoff Wheatstone and Steve Preston exhibited

extraordinary skill, ingenuity, and resource

management in dealing with [their aircraft's] sudden,

likely fatal, loss of control."

The Air Line Pilots Association, International, is

the international labor union representing most

commercial airline pilots, and is the industry's

leading safety advocate. Its 50,000 members represent

50 carriers in the U.S. and Canada.



For further information, please contact:
John Mazor Tel: +1 703 481-4440

Published in M2 PressWIRE on Wednesday, 26 August 1998
Copyright (C) 2015, M2 Communications Ltd.

Other Latest Headlines

[boeingboy]

TSB full report:

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 7c0168.pdf

[fish4life]

I could only imagine what that would have been like if it were in IMC, perhaps if it's violent enough the G loading along would be enough to tear a wing off.

[loopa]

Man seeing these pictures sends chills down my spine ... Sorry for your loss (to the ones affected)

[Unit 969]

The Metro wing has a very strong continuous spar from one side to the other. The fuselage is more likely to depart the wing than the wing is to seperate into 2 parts.

[iflyforpie]

I don't think so.. wings look strong but are the most highly loaded part of the aircraft. Unless the aircraft was above zero fuel weight.. its unlikely the fuselage attach points would fail before the wing spar.

A few thoughts.

Now that it seems like structural failure is a distinct probability... I started thinking about these types of pilots in these types of operations. I remember being on Carson's ramp one day before a lesson and there was a Navair MU-2 and a Carson Metro coming in at nearly the same time to 15(16). The aerobatic display I saw as these two turboprops jockeyed for position made my jaw drop. A few years later in Penticton, I remember seeing a Navair Navajo nearly hit traffic and the fence on Runway 34 and touch down on the grass before the displaced threshold after doing a bunch of show boating over Skaha Lake. Then there was that NT King Air that contacted terrain in the North Shore mountains a few years back... And every summer it seems... the Carson Metros are VFRing it below twelve five across the province rather than being up in the Flight Levels.

My point is.. most of these pilots in these types of operations are fairly low time and are now in a high performance aircraft with no passengers and I'm sure that some feel the need to let loose. The cumulative stresses from performing low level maneuvers might exceed the manufacturer's expectations.

I don't think the pilots in the crash were showboating.. they were in hard IMC with icing most likely and concentrating on flying the aircraft as perfectly as possible.. but that aircraft may have been a victim of years of pilot's kicks and frustrations.

[xsbank]

., that term means the same as those old economics chestnuts "the short term" and "in the long term."

[PositiveRate27]

The things I witnessed on both the flight ops and mtc side of this operation while I worked there would completely horrify you. I've been saying this for years, but the response was always to man up, get the job done and get your left seat quick. You'll be living the dream in no time. Some dream these two guys had to expirience in their last moments.

Absolutely tragic.

[CID]

There are a couple of ADs on this aircraft regarding fatigue cracking at the wing spars and the wing attach fittings.

With respect to the comments directed to the TSB, do you people really think the TSB is NOT working effectively when they investigate these crashes? Why bash them for no reason? Is it because they are a government institution?

In my experience they are a very professional and responsible organization that not only does a good job investigating, they do the proper thing when it comes to disseminating information.

[threepoint]

The TSB revelation is not surprising, given how the wing was located separately from the main wreckage, yet there were, according to the North Shore Rescue spotters, no telltale swaths through the trees, nor even broken tree tops. That led me to believe a couple days ago that the wing became detached prior to striking any objects on the ground.
So the next question is: did the inflight breakup lead to an uncontrollable descent, or did an uncontrollable descent lead to an inflight breakup? I suppose how tightly clustered the components were found together might provide some insight to this.

[bigsky]

A nice tribute..RIP

Co-pilot Kevin Wang, killed in B.C. crash, left Yellowknife's Air Tindi last month.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/co- ... -1.3037218