Gear up landing possible prevention

[Shiny Side Up]

"Configuration Assurance"

Much the same as my gear configuration check PilotDar.

Mine is " Where am I landing and where is my gear "

I'd say that what one actually says to one's self is probably irrelevant, as long as one has some sort of thought process on the matter. I don't think people have gear problems due to the specifics of how they think about it, its those who don't think that run into issues. People who've learned to fly by rote, and where a dropped checklist is the worst kind of emergency. There's people where flying simple things uses 100% of their CPU and any extra is going to mean things are forgotten, especially if anything else commands their attention. I'll say as well that most of the gear ups I've seen are always guys who don't fly a lot, the less than 30 hours a year bunch. Very revealingly, Mooney makes a belly skid, that I know is popular.

[CID]

This is one of those topics where "it depends". Years ago, Gateway aviation curled the tips on an HS-748. The contact sort of bounced the airplane back in the air and the flight crew went around (if you can call it that) and landed. I don't know if the pilots realized their mistake before contact and tried to prevent contact. Perhaps the momentum was a little to strong to overcome. No catastrophic damage but I imagine some new vibration was experienced.

Based on some comments here, the flight crew should have just pulled the power off and let it settle back on to the runway. That not only would result in more damage which clearly is not a big concern if your life is at stake, but it may have also been much more dangerous. I think we can all imagine what could go wrong when you mix hot engine parts, swirling massive propellers, fuel, and belly sparks.

Pilot's tend not to brief for vital actions following a gear-up landing unless the gear won't come down.

Of course belly landings don't always cause extensive damage.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... s-up-3903/

Configuration control in amphibious aircraft isn't tough with a little forethought. The CL-215/415 have a SEA/LAND switch and annunciation. It's part of their briefings and it changes the logic for the configuration warning from gear selector to airspeed when SEA mode is selected. It's too bad more amphibious aircraft don't adopt this simple fix.

[Liquid Charlie]

Based on some comments here, the flight crew should have just pulled the power off and let it settle back on to the runway

-- in my opinion -- they likely should have -- rolling the dice is always a crap shoot -- ya that is funny -- but the belly slide has a lot less abrupt stop compared to an uncontrolled impact with the ground - they got lucky ---

[Rookie50]

I've have some training and mentoring in RG's but mostly, it's been "there it is, go fly it" for me. Going from type to type as a real risk in forgetting something important. 'Could be the gear. I really want to avoid that for reasons of liking planes to be airworthy, and my pride in piloting as intact as I can manage. I admit, it's purely selfish reasons for not wanting an "event" - I just could not find a way to explain my stupidity, if I landed with the gear in the wrong position. All I can hope for is effective prevention.

It is called thinking about what you are about to do.

So, I have chosen "Configuration Assurance". I choose to take a moment before each landing, to assure the configuration of the aircraft is correct. For the wheels, I say their positions, and the landing surface aloud two times. So it's a bit OCD, I'll live with that. When I say it first, I look for indications which confirm my statement. When I say it second, I touch the selector, confirming it's position, and indication lights.

My passengers look at me a little odd, but I can live with that. My 11 year old daughter now says it along with me....

I verbalize too. "Green, mains mirror", then a second look on base, to make sure I didn't make it up.

[StratusSmoke]

I'd have to check MANOPs but I'm fairly certain there is no prohibition to giving a "check gear down". It has been my practice to continue to issue a "check gear down" when an aircraft is conducting another approach after a missed/go around or, an amphibious transiting water to land or vice versa. The water landing would get a "check your gear" as opposed to "check gear down" for obvious reasons.

[trey kule]

I have a crazy idea: teach students to check the gear FROM DAY 1. It may seem silly to teach this in a fixed gear trainer, but remember primacy? It gets them thinking about it and it's ingrained when they progress to a more complex aircraft.

I agree, it is a crazy idea. Never, never teach a student someting like that. They get in the habit of not doing it but stating they have done it...can you see where this leads when there really is gear to put down.
and dont get me started on the clever little fellows who call " Gear down and welded."

I actually have a great deal of tolerance for the crew unless it comes to light that their idea of a sterile cockpit on final was to allow them quiet time to post on facebook, or check their phones. We are human. Having said that, I fail to understand how two, so called professionals, could forget to put the gear down
Not so sure about the decision to go around, but , as someone mentioned, that might have been a 'oh shit' reaction and once you are back in the air with full power ...well ...no one thinks all that clearly I dont expect after they realize they have damaged a perfectly good aircraft for no good reason.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

You seldom ever hear of an airline jet crew forgetting to put the gear down to land, why?

[Rockie]

You seldom ever hear of an airline jet crew forgetting to put the gear down to land, why?

Lots of reasons.

1. Two people so both would have to forget
2. SOP's
3. Checklists
4. We do what's called a managed drag approach on the glide path/slope normally at around 170 kts with flaps 1 or 2 depending on the wind and weight. At around 1800 feet AGL it's time to slow down and the best way to do that is put the gear down. It does double duty as a speed brake.
5. Passing 800 feet or so the GPWS will scream at you "TOO LOW - GEAR" if the gear isn't down and locked and it won't stop.

[TG]

1. Two people so both would have to forget

Someone I knew told me that one time he forgot to put the gear "Up" on a CC-130.


And they were three on board (not counting the load master)

[Rockie]

That's not an unknown mistake in training for engine failures at V1 or on the go-around either. The PF gets absorbed with keeping it right side up and the PNF is absorbed with the same thing through will power and body english. Eventually you both wonder why the hell it's so noisy and climbing like a snail.

[TG]

Yes, that's exactly what happen...

[oldtimer]

Getting off the subject a bit but I sat in a Twotter sucking O2 to help a hangover and watched a Baron land gear up. Pilot and passengers scrambled out, unloaded baggage, fire truck showed up and the airplane caught fire. Only thing left were steel parts and the tail. I saw a Chieftain that was landed when the gear would not extend. By feathering one prop on final and the other one during the flair, not a mark on either prop. Read an accident where a twin Cessna had a gear problem so a deliberate gear up was attempted except when the pilot featherd both props, he forgot drag was reduced significantly and floated off the end of the runway. I know a pilot who had a gear problen in a Cessna 337 so the front prop was feathered, the airplane landed gear up on a grass runway and all damage was buffed out with rubbing compound and polish. I also knew of a pilot who damaged a prop on a Cherokee Arrow and flew it for at least 2 hours to get home.

[Rockie]

That's not an unknown mistake in training for engine failures at V1 or on the go-around either. The PF gets absorbed with keeping it right side up and the PNF is absorbed with the same thing through will power and body english. Eventually you both wonder why the hell it's so noisy and climbing like a snail.

Or so I've heard anyway. Never made that mistake myself of course...

[PilotDAR]

I don't think people have gear problems due to the specifics of how they think about it,

I can't agree with this. Several times I've been right seat in an amphib, when the pilot declared "gear down", upon which I asked what surface they were planning to land on.

The best way to handle this is the kindergarten way: "I'm afraid of getting it wrong, and not being allowed to have afternoon nap, so I'll stop, think, say all the words I know that I should, and check that what I said is what is". It only takes about ten seconds....

[Shiny Side Up]

I don't think people have gear problems due to the specifics of how they think about it,

I can't agree with this. Several times I've been right seat in an amphib, when the pilot declared "gear down", upon which I asked what surface they were planning to land on.

Probably because said pilot has learned a lot of flying by rote. I was referring to whatever little thing people who put the gear down with a certain OCD, whatever it is that they say to themselves, in that they actively think about the process as opposed to it being check item #5 or whatever. One runs into it a lot, guys who fly the same way all the time in spite of things that might be changing, and things rapidly getting outside the norm. Give me an hour with someone and I could tell you if they're someone who's likely to leave the gear up (or in the wrong position) sometime, or if they're someone who will do the right thing. There's a mental list of priorities somewhere, and some people don't have theirs in the correct order.

[Liquid Charlie]

Well first of all -- very little drag (although there is a speed restriction) for the gear down on a herc -- in fact loosing 2 engines and hydraulics the first item is to put the gear down so you don't need to either belly the aircraft in because of load in the way or actually do a manual gear extension which is a real pain) so get the gear out before you lose the hydraulics and life is much better.

Now to the folk lore and urban legend -- first an operator who put fake gear levers in 2 otters and put it in the check list because pilots are too stupid to go from a 2otter to a dash8 and will land gear up --

. will like this one and is likely aware -- company putting fake gear warning lights in a Pig Boat to give TC a warm fuzzy feeling on check rides - switch operated by the captain beside his seat. --

Landing gear up and having pilots take it back in the air will never change -- one interesting point is that it practically only happens in one area(light aircraft) or maybe better defined as 705 (121) suffer from it very little -- is that a reflection on maturity, SOP's, training and proper operational control -- ya think!!!!

[Illya Kuryakin]

Just a thought about 705/121 ops to further LC's line of thinking about SOP use and operational control. The pilots are not as likely to fly with the same person day in and day out. Frequent pairing changes brings the necessity of proper SOP use to the forefront. It keeps everybody on the same page, whereas in small ops, you tend to fly with the same people daily, and familiarity tends to, if not breed contempt, at least conjure up a more, shall we say, relaxed attitude? I must say, I fly with the same people so often, we can finish each other's sentences. We tend to be an extremely experienced group, so perhaps this has saved our bacon (unknowingly) on occasion?
Thoughts?
Illya

[Illya Kuryakin]

Just a suggestion for training captains in regards to memory aids for the landing gear.
When I used to fly DC3s, back in the day of the dinosaurs, I'd place an LE chart (remember those?) between the prop levers if there was something I had to do before landing. ie, I was operating outside my normal flow of things. I always worked.
If I'm training, I hold the checklist in my hand till all is done before landing.
I have purposely made the trainee miss the gear by bringing up other malfunctions at the time he would normally ask for the gear. It works. 1 in every 8 or so times, I can get him to forget. And until I drop that checklist on the floor for landing, I know something is not right.
Keep in mind, there are reasons Cat, LC, myself and the like have never left the gear up. It's not because we're better than those who have, it's because there are methods to our madness.
Illya

[Grant71]

Boeing Landing checklist:
Gear - Down.
Flaps - set
autobrakes - set
speed barkes - armed


C172 FTU checklist:
Fuel - ON BOTH
2. Mixture - RICH
3. Carb Heat - ON
4. Landing Light - ON
5. Mags - On BOTH
6. Master - ON
7. Primer - LOCKED
8. Engine Gauges - CHECK
9. Brake Pressure - CHECK
10. Seats & Harnesses - SECURE
11. Doors & Windows - SECURE
12. Pre-Landing Brief
13. Sterile cockpit - BELOW 1000


Have you ever seen a Cessna Pilot puling the actual checklist to preform the before landing checks? it's rare. most of Cessna pilots use the checklist to the run-up and after runway is clear.
it's rare because flight schools do not understands the difference between procedure and checklist.

the goal of the checklist is to verify you have completed CRITICAL items within you procedure (or within your "flow" as some call it).

writing down the passenger briefing items or the loss of RPM on magnetos on the checklist is wrong. pilots should memorize some procedures, even at the PPL level.
I am sure that a student can remember how much RPM drop is acceptable on mag chk. and if not - give him a "run up prodecure paper" - don't put it into the checklist!

this way Seneca pilots will pull their checklist to conduct the 3 basic items:

-Gear Down.
-Flaps Set
-Go Around Power Set (Full Mixture/Full Prop).

THATS IT. keep it simple and you will see less gear up landing issues.

[Rookie50]

Boeing Landing checklist:
Gear - Down.
Flaps - set
autobrakes - set
speed barkes - armed


C172 FTU checklist:
Fuel - ON BOTH
2. Mixture - RICH
3. Carb Heat - ON
4. Landing Light - ON
5. Mags - On BOTH
6. Master - ON
7. Primer - LOCKED
8. Engine Gauges - CHECK
9. Brake Pressure - CHECK
10. Seats & Harnesses - SECURE
11. Doors & Windows - SECURE
12. Pre-Landing Brief
13. Sterile cockpit - BELOW 1000


Have you ever seen a Cessna Pilot puling the actual checklist to preform the before landing checks? it's rare. most of Cessna pilots use the checklist to the run-up and after runway is clear.
it's rare because flight schools do not understands the difference between procedure and checklist.

the goal of the checklist is to verify you have completed CRITICAL items within you procedure (or within your "flow" as some call it).

writing down the passenger briefing items or the loss of RPM on magnetos on the checklist is wrong. pilots should memorize some procedures, even at the PPL level.
I am sure that a student can remember how much RPM drop is acceptable on mag chk. and if not - give him a "run up prodecure paper" - don't put it into the checklist!

this way Seneca pilots will pull their checklist to conduct the 3 basic items:

-Gear Down.
-Flaps Set
-Go Around Power Set (Full Mixture/Full Prop).

THATS IT. keep it simple and you will see less gear up landing issues.

Agree. And a flow is superior. I have a checklist I wrote myself, but only look at it on the ground, pre - start, and pre - takeoff a quick verify glance. I simplified pre-start (or pre entry -- MAF term) items and it has "kill you items" highlighted --- gas, drains, oil, caps, plugs, spot device, trims. Rest is flow, and landing items are always the same sequence - carb, gear, flaps, rich/ fine.

[photofly]

I simplified pre-start (or pre entry -- MAF term) items and it has "kill you items" highlighted --- gas, drains, oil, caps, plugs, spot device, trims.

A wrongly-configured spot device is a killer item? Remind me never to buy one.

[photofly]

....until the day I was single pilot and rolled wings level on very short final after a carved in rushed flat approach, looked down and the gear handle was not down and the lights were not on .

I have purposely made the trainee miss the gear by bringing up other malfunctions at the time he would normally ask for the gear. It works.

Seems to me that these two posts highlight the danger. Anyone can remember a gear-check or a checklist in general until the one occasion the approach doesn't follow the usual pattern, or their attention is on something else at the relevant time. How do you train to avoid distraction?

[Big Pistons Forever]

How do you train to avoid distraction?

Have the discipline to do that the final, final check Every Time. I absolutely made some mistakes that day, letting myself get distracted and rushed, but that last check was the difference from a safe and easy overshoot and flying a second approach to a normal landing.......or the nasty horrible slide down the runway on the aircraft's belly.

Now the Skygods like . and Ilya of course never make mistakes, so they would never be in the position of forgetting to put the gear down, but this mere mortal did..........

I have never geared up an aircraft and I hope that the mental check I worked very hard to make automatic on every landing will save my butt if I ever screw up again.

Also despite the fact that the thread started with a discussion about gear up landings in a King Air, a tricycle gear wheeled aircraft, the conversation has broadened to include other types including amphibian aircraft

I know . will be amazed at this but I am actually aware of what aircraft I am sitting in and adjust the final call to suit.

So in a glider it would be simply "Gear down and locked" as there is no light and only one wheel

For the Beech 18 or Globe Swift I used to fly it would be "gear down and 2 Green"

For the Amphib float plane it would be a bit more detailed as there are more ways to screw up.
For a water landing it would be "This is a WATER landing, gear UP and 4 Blue"
For a land landing it would be "This is a LAND landing, gear DOWN and 4 Green"

[Rookie50]

I simplified pre-start (or pre entry -- MAF term) items and it has "kill you items" highlighted --- gas, drains, oil, caps, plugs, spot device, trims.

A wrongly-configured spot device is a killer item? Remind me never to buy one.

LOL. If I don't turn it on prestart and I'm flying up north, I won't remember to, likely. And if my ELT fails, that spot is nice to have on up there. But suppose it won't kill me for my patch flights.

[grimey]

They still make the gear down call in CYYR.

I'm sure it's not in their MANOPS.
Illya

FSS were (and I hope are) supposed to observe the aircraft on final to check for the gear, there wasn't a call if it looked good though.

This doesn't mean it was always done though.