Last hope from a desperate aviatior-in-training

[doan_1]

Deleted personal information and posts. Please do not ask for funding help through any money raising service here, trust me. If you want to fly, get off your computer and talk to real people. Work for it & save your pennies. But if I can suggest something, don't go into debt and make sure you have the money to complete before you start. Having come to 98% and running out of cash is a real bummer. Have a great season!

[Shiny Side Up]

Not sure if this has occurred to you or not, but even if you do finish your CPL, do you think you're going to be in a better spot? If you're this hard up financially you got to look at getting your head above water before going further. You already have hinted at what you need to do - get a trade. And contrary to what the corporate people would like to tell us, there's still a lot of work out there for anyone with a strong back. Right now, you have no mobility even if you had your CPL, which is the trouble I'm finding with hiring people. No one can afford to move to work. Moving is a big financial hit, when you got to put down a damage deposit, set up all your other bills and pay for gas to transport yourself. For any new pilots I'd recommend that when you're job searching you'd better have $5K in your pocket so you can take advantage of any offers. Also remembering that its going to be very lean when you start a new job until you get your first paycheck in hand.

Not sure why I have to give other people's children lessons in life.

[CpnCrunch]

So, what do you actually still need to do for your CPL? Have you done your flight test yet? How much instrument time do you need?

Pacific Sky has a $30/hr sim (+$65/hr for instructor), which is the cheapest way of getting instrument time. Up to 10 hours of sim time counts towards the dual requirement of the CPL.

[doan_1]

Not sure if this has occurred to you or not, but even if you do finish your CPL, do you think you're going to be in a better spot? If you're this hard up financially you got to look at getting your head above water before going further. You already have hinted at what you need to do - get a trade. And contrary to what the corporate people would like to tell us, there's still a lot of work out there for anyone with a strong back. Right now, you have no mobility even if you had your CPL, which is the trouble I'm finding with hiring people. No one can afford to move to work. Moving is a big financial hit, when you got to put down a damage deposit, set up all your other bills and pay for gas to transport yourself. For any new pilots I'd recommend that when you're job searching you'd better have $5K in your pocket so you can take advantage of any offers. Also remembering that its going to be very lean when you start a new job until you get your first paycheck in hand.

Not sure why I have to give other people's children lessons in life.

Deleted personal information/story.

[Shiny Side Up]

I am perfectly mobile,

You missed my point. By mobile, I'm asking if you can move to another location to start a job? If the answer is no, then getting your CPL done, isn't going to improve your station in life. You'll then have spent money and time doing that, and find yourself without a job again. While I can appreciate the enthusiasm and effort, you got to have a different set of priorities.

Don't reinforce failure.

[doan_1]

So, what do you actually still need to do for your CPL? Have you done your flight test yet? How much instrument time do you need?

Pacific Sky has a $30/hr sim (+$65/hr for instructor), which is the cheapest way of getting instrument time. Up to 10 hours of sim time counts towards the dual requirement of the CPL.

No, I still need the flight test. I ran dry last year just shy of getting my recommend. 2.6 hours of Instruments and the 200 total. But the part that'll cost is all the basics I'll need to get back to flight test standard after being grounded for over a year (minus a check ride last August at the flying club). That's where the 152 would come in. Spend 10 hours up by myself pounding out steep turns, forced approaches, VOR intercepts, etc... But all the other check boxes have been filled. The SIM is a good idea too though. I'll look into it. Ironically I did most of airtime with Vital (YCD) and they don't have a SIM, so I have never actually tried one!

[doan_1]

I am perfectly mobile,

You missed my point. By mobile, I'm asking if you can move to another location to start a job? If the answer is no, then getting your CPL done, isn't going to improve your station in life. You'll then have spent money and time doing that, and find yourself without a job again. While I can appreciate the enthusiasm and effort, you got to have a different set of priorities.

Don't reinforce failure.

Gotcha, thanks for clearing that up. I can move and relocate. I mean I can live out of a suite case and put my stuff into storage in my brother's garage/attic easily enough once hired, so I can reduce my moving costs to fuel and food to get me there. My training CPL time was done in Arizona through Vital's desert camp last year where I lived in a decrepit old motor home on the Parker (Avi Sequilla; P20) airport, studying on a broken old table and with almost no internet access for help. As far as the first job not paying much, if it's at least close to what I am making now I would be OK for a season or two as long as it was a stepping stone and not a rut.

[Shiny Side Up]

Where are you going to live when you move to your new job? In a tent?

[doan_1]

Where are you going to live when you move to your new job? In a tent?

No, but for a damage deposit I'll use the one I have with my current landlord. I mean moving around, this would not be my first rodeo. I know how this all works. I'm not 18 moving away from home for the first time. I'm just saying living on limited means does not phase me, and once the CPL (the big first thing needed before the rest is an option) is done then every cent I can save will go toward the first job hunt next season.

[Duffman]

I was in a similar situation to you. I had two maxed out credit cards, a line of credit and a personal loan by the time I finished my CPL in 2012. A few weeks later I started my first job flying and started paying it off. I will have it all paid off by the end of this float season.

I don't advocate people taking on debt but it's what I had to do to get it done and I have no regrets. If you are really serious about this you'll find a way to get it done. Can't get a line of credit? Family member to co-sign it for you?

Is your goal to get a float job? Make sure you know exactly what your job prospects are at the end. With a 7 hour float rating consider yourself lucky to get hired as a dockhand and maybe fly the following year. Pay? Somewhere around $2000 a month, maybe more maybe less. Also if you finish your CPL and rating soon you'll be too late for this season and sitting until spring 2016.

No disrespect but I don't feel bad for you because i've been there and I made it work.

[doan_1]

Deleted

[Rookie50]

Not sure if this has occurred to you or not, but even if you do finish your CPL, do you think you're going to be in a better spot? If you're this hard up financially you got to look at getting your head above water before going further. You already have hinted at what you need to do - get a trade. And contrary to what the corporate people would like to tell us, there's still a lot of work out there for anyone with a strong back. Right now, you have no mobility even if you had your CPL, which is the trouble I'm finding with hiring people. No one can afford to move to work. Moving is a big financial hit, when you got to put down a damage deposit, set up all your other bills and pay for gas to transport yourself. For any new pilots I'd recommend that when you're job searching you'd better have $5K in your pocket so you can take advantage of any offers. Also remembering that its going to be very lean when you start a new job until you get your first paycheck in hand.

Not sure why I have to give other people's children lessons in life.

+1. I can't add much to SSU's wise comments.

[Posthumane]

Since this is mostly a financial question I would recommend posting on a financial forum rather than an aviation forum (you could give Mr Money Mustache a try). That being said, I believe that even in a place like victoria you should be able to get your living expenses down to around $20k/year or less by living frugally with room mates and such. I don't know what your loan situation looks like, but anything above minimum wage will cover basic living expenses and will leave you small amount to get a bit of flying in, even if it's only a couple hours a month. If you feel comfortable posting a more detailed account of your finances then it may be possible to give more specific advice.

[126.75]

I agree that this is mostly a personal finance type post that a flying one. At the end of the day you need to start getting some more cash flow.

If I were you, I'd probably get a second job (perhaps work in a bar/restaurant as the tips can go far as cash) and spend the next 6 months living frugally trying to pay down some (all) of your debt and create a bit of a cushion financially (5-10k or so). Once you're in that position you can then look at getting back into the flying. In the mean time you can study, practice VOR intercepts for free on your own simulator (don't need to do that in an airplane) "hangar fly" and perhaps hang out at the airport coffee shop networking. Once you are in a better more stable position get back into it. Try and do it all at once - stay fresh and then the hard part is finding that job and moving out to it.

Good Luck..

If you look at reddit take a look at the following:

http://www.reddit.com/r/frugal
http://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/

[doan_1]

Since this is mostly a financial question I would recommend posting on a financial forum rather than an aviation forum (you could give Mr Money Mustache a try). That being said, I believe that even in a place like victoria you should be able to get your living expenses down to around $20k/year or less by living frugally with room mates and such. I don't know what your loan situation looks like, but anything above minimum wage will cover basic living expenses and will leave you small amount to get a bit of flying in, even if it's only a couple hours a month. If you feel comfortable posting a more detailed account of your finances then it may be possible to give more specific advice.

TO ALL THOSE LOOKING INTO FLIGHT TRAINING. DON'T BE ME! DEBT IS BAD!

[Rookie50]

These questions aren't asked, but for anyone else reading, here's what I did, as basic principles, for years and years, until eventually my business became sustainable. All of this, I learned the hard way, (digging out of debt) but it built a lifetime foundation. Had no help -- either. Just hard work.

Take whatever useful, discard the rest.

Rent -- basement suite only, and preferably a roommate. Consider trading fixing up the place for better rent. I got in trouble, moved from a really nice Kits place to a dark, dumpy basement suite. But was 1/3 the rent. Was tough to do.

Car -- never, ever buy new. I still resist buying new, at a very different life stage. Pay it off fast, or it's likely too expensive. My last car I bought, like new, off lease, half the price.

Credit cards -- cut up.

Lots of KD, Raman noodles for dinner, and no eating out. Ever. I'm not kidding.

Work 2 jobs. Ton of US tourism demand in Victoria, btw this year. Tons. Means restaurants ect are likely hopping.

When It came to working -- both for others and for myself --- I made a decision early on. I'm not the brightest, best educated, or best connected out there (or the most naturally skilled pilot by any means, lol) -- but I decided no one would outwork me, as a principle.

Whatever I did, from mopping floors and scrubbing toilets, on up -- I determined how to apply myself and continually study how to improve my results. You do that -- most won't -- it's remarkable what can happen.

This isn't advice, cause that wasnt asked. It's what I did.

Hopefully this helps someone. If I wasted your time, just ignore it.

[CpnCrunch]

Well if you're flexible and a hard worker there is a lot of reasonably well paid manual labour out there, for example:

http://nanaimo.craigslist.ca/lab/4989891234.html
http://nanaimo.craigslist.ca/lab/4988676313.html

[Big Pistons Forever]

Doan

I hope you can get out of your situation and get ahead. Others have pointed out what you need to do so I wish you good luck on your quest.

To all aspiring CPL's.

Don't be this guy. I paid for all my training as I did it and graduated with a CPL and FI rating debt free and with some money in the bank so that I could comfortably survive the first year of poor pay. By the end of the second year instructing I was a class 2 and making quite reasonable money.

[doan_1]

These questions aren't asked, but for anyone else reading, here's what I did, as basic principles, for years and years, until eventually my business became sustainable. All of this, I learned the hard way, (digging out of debt) but it built a lifetime foundation. Had no help -- either. Just hard work.

Take whatever useful, discard the rest.

Rent -- basement suite only, and preferably a roommate. Consider trading fixing up the place for better rent. I got in trouble, moved from a really nice Kits place to a dark, dumpy basement suite. But was 1/3 the rent. Was tough to do.

Car -- never, ever buy new. I still resist buying new, at a very different life stage. Pay it off fast, or it's likely too expensive. My last car I bought, like new, off lease, half the price.

Credit cards -- cut up.

Lots of KD, Raman noodles for dinner, and no eating out. Ever. I'm not kidding.

Work 2 jobs. Ton of US tourism demand in Victoria, btw this year. Tons. Means restaurants ect are likely hopping.

This isn't advice, cause that wasnt asked. It's what I did.

Deleted

[Rookie50]

Doan

I hope you can get out of your situation and get ahead. Others have pointed out what you need to do so I wish you good luck on your quest.

To all aspiring CPL's.

Don't be this guy. I paid for all my training as I did it and graduated with a CPL and FI rating debt free and with some money in the bank so that I could comfortably survive the first year of poor pay. By the end of the second year instructing I was a class 2 and making quite reasonable money.

Pay cash later, too, for everything you can. Don't let the bloodsucking leech banks own your life.

I can't express it with too much more sensitivity.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Get caught up financially.

Don't spend money trying to keep current.

When you get caught up financially then finish your CPL.

A good flight instructor will get you back to the flight test standard in a few hours.....flying a fu.kin airplane is not black magic.

A float rating is under $3,000.00

[iflyforpie]

+1.

The biggest enemy to you right now is hastiness and desperation. Every time I've made a financial decision under time pressure... whether it be borrowing money vs saving for something, or a 'you snooze you lose' kind of deal, I've wound up regretting it.

Anything financial you need to work logically, not passionately. I know.. if we worked logically, none of us would be flying.. LOL... but I feel you need it right now. You may think that you are too old at 34... but . is well over double that age and still dabbling in aviation. You have plenty of time.

Get your affairs in order, find a better paying job, build up a flying fund, then finish your training and set yourself up to be a low timer all in one shot.


And yeah.. maybe I don't know what its like since I got my CPL at 25... but I lost my father to alcoholism at 17 and went straight from high school to working menials jobs and getting a trade so I could pursue my dream.. and picked up a wife, house, and had a child before I got my first flying job at 25 with ZERO connections in aviation... ....so if I can do it, you can too.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

You may think that you are too old at 34... but . is well over double that age and still dabbling in aviation. You have plenty of time.

Age is not really a factor.

Attitude and aptitude and the ability to sort out what is important from all the B.S. that is so prevalent in aviation is what is important.

When I retired I was 70 and I retired because I had had enough of aviation.

As to whether age diminishes your ability to fly an think that will depend on the individual.

At 70 I still passed my flight test to renew my unrestricted airdisplay authority in Europe and was still getting paid to fly in the air show circuit all over Europe, trust me the flight test does not make exceptions for age.

[awitzke]

Doan

I hope you can get out of your situation and get ahead. Others have pointed out what you need to do so I wish you good luck on your quest.

To all aspiring CPL's.

Don't be this guy. I paid for all my training as I did it and graduated with a CPL and FI rating debt free and with some money in the bank so that I could comfortably survive the first year of poor pay. By the end of the second year instructing I was a class 2 and making quite reasonable money.

There are two sides to the coin. Had I spent years saving the money to complete my training I wouldn't have finished for a few years. In the end I took a large line of credit to finish. Sure I have debt... but you know what so does everyone else. I got something useful with it and every year I would have spent finishing is one less year of my career when I'm 60. I have significant debt but I have no doubt it will be all gone in 5 or so years. I've paid off large loans before and can do it again. Don't get me wrong I WISH I could have finished debt free, but for some it's just not an option.

[doan_1]

Deleted. No longer relevant.