Alpa and TFW

[frog]

http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/presid ... ada-EN.pdf

[Takeoff OK]

I'll wait to see what the upcoming white paper has to say before I get too chirpy again. Likely,the fact that ALPA pilots are once again hitting the street (while Scumwing rolls full steam ahead with their TFW plans for next winter) is increasing pressure on the Canada Board to actually do something substantive. That being said, my expectations are as low as could possibly be. It takes a leader with balls, integrity, and a willingness to stand up to those that cushion his life, in order to make things happen. Thus far, Dan has not shown himself to be that leader.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

They already set the tone. That ALPA letter, signed by both Canoll and Adamus contains the following phrase:

As you know, Canadian airlines can legally employ or otherwise use foreign nationals to fly their aircraft through a number of statutory and regulatory regimes/programs.

Has it now become ALPA's official position that a Foreign Licence Validation Certificate (FLVC) is a legal Canadian Licence that allows Foreign Licence holders to fly unrestricted under part VII of the CARs ?

I think that Adamus is siding with Transport Canada on this issue, against the interests of Canadian pilots, and will fall on his sword over it rather than stand with us when we claim that the CARs require a Canadian Licence to Fly under Part VII.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

From: Gilles Hudicourt
Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2015 at 4:39 PM
To: Timothy Canoll
Subject: Flying Commercially in Canada with a Foreign Licence Validation

Dear Captain Canoll,

Let me take this opportunity to congratulate you on your recent election as the 10th President of ALPA. A lot will be expected of you as we work in an ever changing industry that keeps presenting our profession with new threats. Many of these new threats are not related to our traditional MEC-Employer relationship but involve greater Nationwide and International issues which need to be dealt with by the National Union, with the guidance and leadership of the President's Office.

As a Canadian ALPA member, I was most pleased to read about a solely Canadian issue in the list of those you listed for 2015, namely the Foreign Pilot Issue. Where I was disappointed, and the reason which led me to write this email today, is that the core problem is not strictly related to the Temporary Foreign Worker Program, a program which is overseen by Employment and Social Development Canada (ESDC), which is basically Canada's Department of Labor. But this problem is also of concern to our own Ministry of Transport, Transport Canada, since the Canadian Aviation Regulations require that to fly a Canadian Airliner, one needs to be in possession of a Canadian Airline License. Transport Canada has been allowing foreign licensed pilots to fly Canadian airliners with Foreign Licence Validation Certificates and in contravention of their own Regulations, and ALPA has so far mostly turned a blind eye to this issue.

In your country, there is a Federal Aviation Regulation that states that to fly commercially in the United States at the controls of a US carrier, one needs to be in possession of an FAA issued pilots licence. This regulation is found here :

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SI ... 3.121_1383

and it reads like this:

§121.383 Airman: Limitations on use of services.
(a) No certificate holder may use any person as an airman nor may any person serve as an airman unless that person—
(1) Holds an appropriate current airman certificate issued by the FAA;

The only exception to that regulation is listed under FAR 61.77 (a) (1) which states that Special purpose pilot authorization can be issued to a foreign licensed pilot forflying "a civil aircraft of U.S. registry that is leased to a person who is not a citizen of the United States", meaning a foreign individual, a foreign company or a foreign airline.

In Canada, we have a nearly identical Regulation in our Canadian Aviation Regulations:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regu ... tml#h-1372

705.106 (1) Subject to subsection (3), no air operator shall permit a person to act and no person shall act as the pilot-in-command, second-in-command or cruise relief pilot of an aircraft unless the person

· (a) holds the licence, ratings and endorsements required by Part IV

The ALPA Canada Board know this all too well. In fact, on March 20th 2013, Capt Dan Adamus, President of the ALPA Canada Board, wrote a letter to Transport Canada where he stated just that. Here is that letter:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtziha4nqfi6stt/photo-3.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ivqi4gj2a6zgmzv/photo-4.JPG

Transport Canada replied with a lame answer and the issue was left there. ALPA never brought this issue up again as far as I know. Here is that reply..

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5xe48wyhk3jds ... C.pdf?dl=0

It's not that ALPA Canada disagrees with me with regards to the legality of using Foreign Licence Validation Certificates for commercial purposes on Canadian Operated aircraft, it's just that they made a Political decision not to fight Transport Canada over this issue for reasons of friendship and "to maintain good and cordial relations" with the Director General of Civil Aviation so as not compromise "larger issues".

Transport Canada's technical defence, is that as far as they are concerned, a Foreign Licence Validation Certificate is a license issued under Part IV and as thus, conforms to CAR 705.106(1)(a). ALPA Canada knows this to be false.

It is a though the FAA issued to foreign pilots Special purpose pilot authorization under FAR 61.77(a)(1) to fly for Part 121 airlines in the US and then stated that that this authorisation was considered to be a "an appropriate current airman certificate issued by the FAA" as required by FAR 121.383(a)(1).

Would ALPA allow Foreign Licensed Pilots to come to the United States and fly for US Part 121 carriers using their foreign licences ? I think not.

Then why does ALPA allow this same situation to occur in Canada and decides not fight it although it stated that these FLVCs are issued illegally ?

Every year, hundreds of Foreign licensed pilots come to Canada to fly for Canadian Airlines using Foreign Licence Validation Certificates (FLVCs) issued by Transport Canada, in a flagrant contravention to the Canadian Aviation Regulations. ALPA Canada knows it is contrary to the Regulations.

I would like for ALPA to tackle this issue with Transport Canada, regardless of the harm it may cause to the friendship that exists between the President of the ALPA Canada Board and the Director General of Civil Aviation of Canada.

Please note that just like in the United States, the European Union does not allow Foreign Licensed pilots to fly for local airlines, nor do the Australians. Why does Canada allow it and more to the point, why does ALPA look the other way when they are on record for stating the practice is illegal ?


Regards,


Gilles Hudicourt
ALPA #1241850
Air Transat A330/B737 Captain.

[snoopy]

That's just awesome Gilles!. Looking forward to reading the reply.
Cheers,
snoopy

[Libra]

ALPA white-paper-sos-canada.pdf

(520.72 KiB) Downloaded 227 times

[pelmet]

I think that Adamus is siding with Transport Canada on this issue, against the interests of Canadian pilots, and will fall on his sword over it rather than stand with us when we claim that the CARs require a Canadian Licence to Fly under Part VII.

Just out of curiosity, why would ALPA side with TC on this. What is in it for ALPA to side with TC?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

You asked the million dollar question. I really have no idea. But as you can see in the ALPA White Paper, they do not say that CAR 705.106(1) requires a Canadian Licence......

[teacher]

Would ALPA allow Foreign Licensed Pilots to come to the United States and fly for US Part 121 carriers using their foreign licences ? I think not.

This statement says it all about the ALPA Canada versus the ALPA USA hypocrisy.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

In Canada

705.106 (1) Subject to subsection (3), no air operator shall permit a person to act and no person shall act as the pilot-in-command, second-in-command or cruise relief pilot of an aircraft unless the person
(a) holds the licence, ratings and endorsements required by Part IV

In the United States

§121.383 Airman: Limitations on use of services.
(a) No certificate holder may use any person as an airman nor may any person serve as an airman unless that person—
(1) Holds an appropriate current airman certificate issued by the FAA;

ALPA would be up in arms before allowing the FAA to violate FAR 121.383 and allow Foreign licenced pilots to take US jobs away from US pilots.

The same ALPA wrote that Foreign pilot flying in Canada is legal.....

http://www3.alpa.org/portals/alpa/presi ... ada-EN.pdf

As you know, Canadian airlines can legally employ or otherwise use foreign nationals to fly their aircraft through a number of statutory and regulatory regimes/programs.

[altiplano]

I think the optics of allowing foreign labour to take jobs is a key difference of this fight in Canada.

No red blooded 'Merican is going to stand for it and they certainly wouldn't let their own government endorse it... (undocumented agriculture/domestic/dishwasher workers excepted)...

In Canada though we seem easily placated and completely unwilling to fight for ourselves and our countrymen on issues that don't directly affect us. So the government picks us off one group at a time to advance their own interests and the interests of their corporate bagmen.

Keep up the great work Gilles.

[sluggo]

ALPA white-paper-sos-canada.pdf

(520.72 KiB) Downloaded 193 times

Please take a second to sign the petition below to protect your profession. It makes all the difference!

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Ca ... s//?launch

[gonnabeapilot]

So I was having a flip through the ALPA white paper posted above in this thread (I know... I need better ways to spend the long weekend) and I came across the following bit of information in it which I found interesting....

Canadian airlines have several approaches or combinations of approaches by which they may employ or otherwise use foreign nationals to fly their aircraft. The three main avenues are:

1. The Temporary Foreign Worker Program (TFWP) administered by the Employment and Social Development Canada (ESDC);
2. Reciprocal agreements administered by Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC); and
3. Wet-leases, i.e., providing aircraft with foreign crews, under the Transport Canada policy administered by the Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA).

The report then goes on to discuss the various options in detail. For Reciprocal Agreements (#2 in the list above) the report has the following to say:

This program was designed to allow a foreign worker to work in Canada if that created a
reciprocal opportunity for a Canadian to be employed abroad. ALPA discovered that far more
foreign pilots were employed in Canada than Canadians were flying abroad under reciprocal
agreements. No effective reciprocity existed.

Immigration officers now vet the agreements for appropriate reciprocity. However, they do not
enforce reciprocity on a one-to-one basis, but follow guidelines that allow an exchange in the
75 percent range—i.e., for 100 foreign workers in Canada there should be 75 employment
opportunities for Canadians abroad.

Over the last little bit, the whole controversy over Sunwing's use of Foreign pilots has focussed on the fact that the pilots were brought over to work in Canada using the TFW program. People viewed this as an abuse of the program and therefore felt the practice should stop.

This summer Sunwing is sending 4 aircraft to Europe and will deploy 9 crews/aircraft to operate the flying. This works out to 72 Canadian pilots going to work in Europe this summer. For winter 2015/16 Sunwing plans on bringing 105 European pilots to Canada to help with the flying. As a point of discussion I'm curious about the following....

Let's say that all of these petitions and public pressure succeeds and Sunwing is not permitted to use the TFW program for staffing in winter 2015/16. According to the ALPA white paper they could then apply to CIC to create a reciprocal agreement to bring the pilots in. With a 72 Canadian pilots heading overseas, a request for 105 pilots pretty much falls bang on the 75% range that is the minimum requirement for the use of this program. So that means that these 105 Foreign pilots will be brought in to Canada under a program that clearly allows them to be here... no more debate about TFW regulations. It's also a program that requires reciprocity and one where the government will monitor compliance.

So my questions is; will that end all of this back and forth about TFWs and the campaign against Sunwing?? Foreign pilots will be here using a program that clearly allows them to be here and requires reciprocity. One for One.... a quality Canadian full time job for a quality European full time job.... exactly what M. Hudicourt and the majority of the early crusaders against Sunwing's European pilot program said they wanted as the end result. So will that be it?? Will everyone just move on?? Or will we still see a huge push again Foreign pilots and Sunwing as people try to prevent a single European pilot flying in our country?? Curious what people who are deeply involved in this issue will do...

[timel]

Gonnaneapilot,

This winter SunWing got 5 weatlease 737 and crews and an extra of +100 TFW.
Don't forget the wetlease pilots that are not included in the tfw package.

If you want to make it reciprocal, then no tfwp, SW sends 4 x 737 during the summer, so there should 4 wetlease coming the winter in Canada.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

According to the ALPA white paper they could then apply to CIC to create a reciprocal agreement to bring the pilots in. With a 72 Canadian pilots heading overseas, a request for 105 pilots pretty much falls bang on the 75% range that is the minimum requirement for the use of this program. So that means that these 105 Foreign pilots will be brought in to Canada under a program that clearly allows them to be here... no more debate about TFW regulations. It's also a program that requires reciprocity and one where the government will monitor compliance.

So my questions is; will that end all of this back and forth about TFWs and the campaign against Sunwing?? Foreign pilots will be here using a program that clearly allows them to be here and requires reciprocity. One for One.... a quality Canadian full time job for a quality European full time job.... exactly what M. Hudicourt and the majority of the early crusaders against Sunwing's European pilot program said they wanted as the end result. So will that be it?? Will everyone just move on?? Or will we still see a huge push again Foreign pilots and Sunwing as people try to prevent a single European pilot flying in our country?? Curious what people who are deeply involved in this issue will do...

Gonnabeapilot, you already know this, for I already wrote to you about it, but here it goes again.

CIC ruled that Wet-Leases did not qualify for the reciprocity program. If any airline wants to import pilots into Canada to fly Canadian registered aircraft, it must, in reciprocity, send Canadian pilots overseas to work for foreign airlines on foreign registered aircraft.

CIC does not control the foreign wet-leases that are allowed into Canada, the Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA) does. CIC cannot approve using outbound wet-leases in exchange for inbound wet-leases, for it is not the Government of Canada agency that controls inbound wet-leases, the CTA is the responsible agency.

What Sunwing did was send wet-leases to Europe, used those to apply for reciprocity visa for Foreign pilot (more than they sent to Europe on wet-leases) and after the CIC had approved a number of Reciprocity visas, Sunwing then applied to the CTA for foreign wet-leases, a matter in which CIC had no say. And the CTA knew nothing about the Reciprocity program at CIC.

So Sunwing can still apply at CIC for reciprocity visas, but that requires sending Canadian pilot to work overseas for Foreign Airlines on Foreign aircraft, not sending wet-leases overseas. Then CIC will approve reciprocity visas according to the 75% criteria. The problem is that EASA in Europe does not allow Canadian Licenced pilots to fly for EASA member airlines. So for all practical purposes, that program is on hold, with Europe anyway.

We think that Canada does not allow Foreign Licenced pilots to fly Canadian registered aircraft under Part VII and that TC has been approving FLVC for a purpose not approved by the CARs.

So for now, reciprocity is dead in the water, which is why Sunwing is using the TFWP and Wet-Leases.

Like Timel wrote, last summer Sunwing sent 4 wet-leases to Europe and last winter Sunwing imported 5 wet-leases from Europe. This is enough "Reciprocity". The 120 TFW pilot were over and above any claimed "reciprocity".

I heard that Sunwing is again planning to send 4 aircraft to Europe this coming summer.

[gonnabeapilot]

Gonnabeapilot, you already know this, for I already wrote to you about it, but here it goes again.

CIC ruled that Wet-Leases did not qualify for the reciprocity program. If any airline wants to import pilots into Canada to fly Canadian registered aircraft, it must, in reciprocity, send Canadian pilots overseas to work for foreign airlines on foreign registered aircraft.

CIC does not control the foreign wet-leases that are allowed into Canada, the Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA) does. CIC cannot approve using outbound wet-leases in exchange for inbound wet-leases, for it is not the Government of Canada agency that controls inbound wet-leases, the CTA is the responsible agency.

What Sunwing did was send wet-leases to Europe, used those to apply for reciprocity visa for Foreign pilot (more than they sent to Europe on wet-leases) and after the CIC had approved a number of Reciprocity visas, Sunwing then applied to the CTA for foreign wet-leases, a matter in which CIC had no say. And the CTA knew nothing about the Reciprocity program at CIC.

So Sunwing can still apply at CIC for reciprocity visas, but that requires sending Canadian pilot to work overseas for Foreign Airlines on Foreign aircraft, not sending wet-leases overseas. Then CIC will approve reciprocity visas according to the 75% criteria. The problem is that EASA in Europe does not allow Canadian Licenced pilots to fly for EASA member airlines. So for all practical purposes, that program is on hold, with Europe anyway.

We think that Canada does not allow Foreign Licenced pilots to fly Canadian registered aircraft under Part VII and that TC has been approving FLVC for a purpose not approved by the CARs.

So for now, reciprocity is dead in the water, which is why Sunwing is using the TFWP and Wet-Leases.

Like Timel wrote, last summer Sunwing sent 4 wet-leases to Europe and last winter Sunwing imported 5 wet-leases from Europe. This is enough "Reciprocity". The 120 TFW pilot were over and above any claimed "reciprocity".

I heard that Sunwing is again planning to send 4 aircraft to Europe this coming summer.

Now that you have explained it again, you are right, we have discussed this in the past. My apologies. So much of the discussion lately has focussed on the TFW program that I had genuinely forgotten about the previous developments with CIC about reciprocity visas. Would you be able to refresh my memory as to why CIC ruled that Canadian pilots working overseas on wet-leases could not be counted towards reciprocity visas??

Now that you have reminded me, I know we have discussed the following topic in the past as well but for the sake of those new to the discussion I'll talk about it again. In my opinion, THE best scenario for Canadian pilots is one for one reciprocity between Canadian pilots and European pilots. Now because the majority of this conversation centres around Sunwing and its practices, THE best Sunwing specific scenario for this one for one reciprocity to occur is by Sunwing sending wet-leases to Europe and bringing dry-lease aircraft + crew over to Canada.... ensuring that the crew numbers are EQUAL. Reading the ALPA white paper it seems that the best way for this to happen is to use the CIC reciprocity method but if they won't count wet-leases we will probably be left in a wet-lease for wet-lease swapping which is a less than ideal scenario for Canadian pilots.

For those wondering why wet-lease/dry-lease favours Canadian pilots over wet-lease/wet-lease it comes down to the Sunwing CBA. When Canadian pilots are over in Europe operating wet-lease aircraft, it allows them to operate as they would at home and protects their quality of life and their CBA working conditions. When European pilots operate with Sunwing under a dry-lease scenario, they operate mixed crew. The Sunwing CBA places the European pilots on the Sunwing seniority list below every single Canadian pilot. This means that when it comes to bidding, overtime, etc... Canadian pilots are in a place of advantage. It also means that both European and Canadian pilots can be based in the same city together. When European pilots are brought over under a wet-lease scenario they operate separately from the rest of the operation. It means that bases that receive the wet-leased aircraft are closed to Canadian pilots, and essentially reduces the relative seniority a Canadian pilot holds through the winter season as certain pairings as well as over-time are no longer available to them.

While I'm sure the internal workings of Sunwing aren't of interest to the majority of people on here, it definitely has an impact on the quality of life of a growing number of Canadian pilots (that already numbers a couple hundred) who hope to spend their careers at Sunwing. The people who don't want to see a single European pilot in Canada won't care... the people who have used the decisions of Sunwing's management team to attack their fellow Canadian pilots who for a wide number of reasons have ended up at Sunwing won't care, but those people that claim they genuinely have the interest of Canadian pilots (ALL Canadian pilots) at heart.... they should care. Whether its through the TFW program or the CIC reciprocity program, a wet-lease to Europe/dry-lease to Canada program on a one for one reciprocity basis best benefits the interests of Canadian pilots. The question is, will people put down their pitchforks long enough to try and understand all sides of the issue? In doing so they could work side by side with the Sunwing pilot group and help drive positive regulatory change that will benefit us all.