Sunwest layoffs

[flying4dollars]

I'd rather make less and have a better schedule, than make more and sacrifice that any day of the week.

The f/o's here don't need 2nd and 3rd jobs, they don't eat kraft dinner and all live with mom and dad. The lines are getting old. Those who can't afford the pay, don't apply, and those that can, apply. I wouldn't apply for a job where the pay doesn't agree with my lifestyle, or where I'm not willing to sacrifice my lifestyle for lesser pay. It's worked just dandy for me and I can only speak for myself.

Pay as a captain here isn't bad, and it certainly can be quite good when you pick up overtime here and there. Most f/o's seem to be working towards that, and they don't wait long to get it.

[godsrcrazy]

Sorry but I can't stop laughing so hard I puke reading comments by some of these couch driving owners/ managers. Some of you really think you have it figured out. Management and owners should go broke so you stay employed. Heaven forbid some $hit disturber with seniority gets laid off before someone that just wants to do their job go home and get paid. That person would be called at butt kisser our just plain dumb by some on this forum. I have been in this industry for years. I have listened to and watched over a half dozen people think they would pay more and treat people better let alone think they were smarter then the owners/managers they worked for. The amazing part is I can think of 1 that didn't go broke and trust me he was no better then the guy we worked for. In fact there isn't a chance I would work for him. That being said I don't use his name our put him down. All the others went broke some because they wanted to be everyone friend and others because they were 10 times worse cutting costs and corners then those they criticized. The truth is its a free country. Slavery is long gone. No one forced you to be a pilot and no one can force you to stay. For some reason there are people on this forum and in this industry that believe because they are a pilot they are owed a living. If you don't like were you are then pack up your toys and go home.

[tbaylx]

Sorry but I can't stop laughing so hard I puke reading comments by some of these couch driving owners/ managers. Some of you really think you have it figured out. Management and owners should go broke so you stay employed. Heaven forbid some $hit disturber with seniority gets laid off before someone that just wants to do their job go home and get paid. That person would be called at butt kisser our just plain dumb by some on this forum. I have been in this industry for years. I have listened to and watched over a half dozen people think they would pay more and treat people better let alone think they were smarter then the owners/managers they worked for. The amazing part is I can think of 1 that didn't go broke and trust me he was no better then the guy we worked for. In fact there isn't a chance I would work for him. That being said I don't use his name our put him down. All the others went broke some because they wanted to be everyone friend and others because they were 10 times worse cutting costs and corners then those they criticized. The truth is its a free country. Slavery is long gone. No one forced you to be a pilot and no one can force you to stay. For some reason there are people on this forum and in this industry that believe because they are a pilot they are owed a living. If you don't like were you are then pack up your toys and go home.

Awesome, that's two "if you don't like it you can leave" geniuses in one thread.

Here's an idea, how about engaging the employees and give them a stake. Seems to have worked well for WestJet. If more operators followed that "everyone is an owner, open doors/employee's are valued model them perhaps your "lazy $hit disturbing employee" would be on the same side as the knuckle draggin "if you don't like it you can leave" manager who got promoted because he's been around awhile vs having any sort of business sense or people skills.

[godsrcrazy]

Sorry but I can't stop laughing so hard I puke reading comments by some of these couch driving owners/ managers. Some of you really think you have it figured out. Management and owners should go broke so you stay employed. Heaven forbid some $hit disturber with seniority gets laid off before someone that just wants to do their job go home and get paid. That person would be called at butt kisser our just plain dumb by some on this forum. I have been in this industry for years. I have listened to and watched over a half dozen people think they would pay more and treat people better let alone think they were smarter then the owners/managers they worked for. The amazing part is I can think of 1 that didn't go broke and trust me he was no better then the guy we worked for. In fact there isn't a chance I would work for him. That being said I don't use his name our put him down. All the others went broke some because they wanted to be everyone friend and others because they were 10 times worse cutting costs and corners then those they criticized. The truth is its a free country. Slavery is long gone. No one forced you to be a pilot and no one can force you to stay. For some reason there are people on this forum and in this industry that believe because they are a pilot they are owed a living. If you don't like were you are then pack up your toys and go home.

Awesome, that's two "if you don't like it you can leave" geniuses in one thread.

Here's an idea, how about engaging the employees and give them a stake. Seems to have worked well for WestJet. If more operators followed that "everyone is an owner, open doors/employee's are valued model them perhaps your "lazy $hit disturbing employee" would be on the same side as the knuckle draggin "if you don't like it you can leave" manager who got promoted because he's been around awhile vs having any sort of business sense or people skills.

Here's an idea "Genius" run out round up all those that got laid off and start your own employee owned company. Show all these companies all you complain about how its really done. Seems like you have it figured out.

[tbaylx]

Sorry but I can't stop laughing so hard I puke reading comments by some of these couch driving owners/ managers. Some of you really think you have it figured out. Management and owners should go broke so you stay employed. Heaven forbid some $hit disturber with seniority gets laid off before someone that just wants to do their job go home and get paid. That person would be called at butt kisser our just plain dumb by some on this forum. I have been in this industry for years. I have listened to and watched over a half dozen people think they would pay more and treat people better let alone think they were smarter then the owners/managers they worked for. The amazing part is I can think of 1 that didn't go broke and trust me he was no better then the guy we worked for. In fact there isn't a chance I would work for him. That being said I don't use his name our put him down. All the others went broke some because they wanted to be everyone friend and others because they were 10 times worse cutting costs and corners then those they criticized. The truth is its a free country. Slavery is long gone. No one forced you to be a pilot and no one can force you to stay. For some reason there are people on this forum and in this industry that believe because they are a pilot they are owed a living. If you don't like were you are then pack up your toys and go home.

Awesome, that's two "if you don't like it you can leave" geniuses in one thread.

Here's an idea, how about engaging the employees and give them a stake. Seems to have worked well for WestJet. If more operators followed that "everyone is an owner, open doors/employee's are valued model them perhaps your "lazy $hit disturbing employee" would be on the same side as the knuckle draggin "if you don't like it you can leave" manager who got promoted because he's been around awhile vs having any sort of business sense or people skills.

Here's an idea "Genius" run out round up all those that got laid off and start your own employee owned company. Show all these companies all you complain about how its really done. Seems like you have it figured out.

I've run my own business before, it's a lot of work and too much time away from the family. I'm not complaining about companies, just the people who spout off the line "if you don't like it you can leave". Its a weak argument for managers that are incapable of managing people effectively.

I prefer to work within my own organization to make it a better place to spend a career, which includes helping it maintain profitability and efficiency. Contrary to the "if you don't like it you can leave" mentality you can actually have happy employees while running a profitable business.

[pilotdude86]

Deleted

[flying4dollars]

Sunwest is a sub-par company, with some above-average staff.

This downturn would be a great time for some of these duds to go bye-bye (ie, Sunwest, Air Partners, Aurora, Georgian) and let the better companies hire the great staff coming forward.

Can't speak of the other operators you mentioned but I don't know why Georgian is listed. Do/did you work there? Recently? I've been around a bit and have been treated very fairly and have been given every opportunity to better my lifestyle. I won't make a career out of it, but for the company it is, it's been very good. Someone mentioned at Sunwest, if you're hired, to keep your mouth shut, agree with management all the time and smile and nod. Does someone really want to work under that kind of culture? At Georgian, I don't the least bit fear management, nor do I even have a reason to. I've been able to vent to the CP and even the VP about things and have been given courteous responses and in most cases, a resolution. Isn't that how employers should be treated? That's priceless to me.

Everyone has different experiences. Keep this in mind. Mine has been positive, and I'm certainly not the only one at Georgian who thinks so.

This is a joke right? Schedulers giving pilots what they bid? Have you not been on the ramp or the crew room lately? No one except the top 3 gets their bids.

It's great you enjoy it. I've been here a little over a year and the morale is poor!

Yes it's a joke, you caught me. I've been here longer than a year and I was once bottom of the list. Even then, the schedulers have done their best to give me a commuting schedule. They certainly didn't have to when my seniority was in the basement, but they did what they could and it seemed to work out. What complaining could I do at the bottom? That being said many of our YYC guys seem to get their commuter schedules accommodated. Do you know how much that positively effects their lives? Is that not worth recognizing? Even our new hires have been getting commuter scheds. It's not everything, but it sure helps.

Have you asked yourself why morale is low? Have you asked the guys who aren't unhappy what their secret is? We all make our own experiences. Mine has been positive, or I would have left long ago. For starters, yes, there are negatives, but I don't bash the company on avcanada and I'm trying to give people another less negative perspective rather than the usual crap. What are you doing to help improve it?

Here's what I don't understand. People bash a company, then when a guy comes on here to give another perspective, and it must be a joke. You don't have to take my word for it. I'm just offering my perspective, if you don't agree, that certainly isn't up to me and you're entitled to your own opinion.

[Navaids]

How does one commute with 10GDOs per month? I'm actually curious. I'm also one who prefers lifestyle over money to a certain extent (although the two usually go hand and hand) but at face value GGN offers nether. Quick upgrades usually happen because of a high attrition rate. There is usually a reason for high attrition rates...... The lifestyle sucks.

I have never worked for GGN but I had a look at the CBA it was an easy decision after that

[brooks]

Curious, is this a GGN thread or a Sunwest thread?

I seem to remember a lot of GGN pilots going to Sunwest for a better career, as WJ was snapping up a lot of guys from there at the time. Were any of the former GGN pilots "laid" off?

[flying4dollars]

How does one commute with 10GDOs per month? I'm actually curious. I'm also one who prefers lifestyle over money to a certain extent (although the two usually go hand and hand) but at face value GGN offers nether. Quick upgrades usually happen because of a high attrition rate. There is usually a reason for high attrition rates...... The lifestyle sucks.

I have never worked for GGN but I had a look at the CBA it was an easy decision after that

The lifestyle sucks if you're a commuter with little seniority. But the decision to come here lies with the individual. If you're from YYZ or YYC and you're based there, no the lifestyle doesn't suck. I'm from neither and my lifestyle is pretty good for a 704 company. Georgian is still a stepping stone to the majors. They don't advertise or proclaim to be a career company, so people leave to fly larger machines. 11 gdo's, not 10, and when guys get 3-5 days off at a time, or longer if they bid it, they commute home. Pretty simple actually. Also, not everyone commutes from YYC to YYZ. And that's fine if you decided not to come. You made a choice based on your lifestyle. Just like those that came here, or like others that also chose not to.

Anyways, this thread has clearly gone off topic.

I've spoken to friends at sunwest who say they were told they would probably be recalled by end of summer. I wouldn't hold my breath but I hope they find work soon.

[flying4dollars]

Curious, is this a GGN thread or a Sunwest thread?

I seem to remember a lot of GGN pilots going to Sunwest for a better career, as WJ was snapping up a lot of guys from there at the time. Were any of the former GGN pilots "laid" off?

Lots? 3 went from here to Sunwest, only 1 is still there.

[AirMail]

Well folks, if you ever wondered why wages and lifestyle of our careers continued to be depressed, look no further to flying4dollars and godsrcrazy as shining examples of self serving wannabe a$$holes. Who enjoy the comforts of living in their parents basement slicking on those aviators trying to impress the ladies or men saying that they are an "airline" pilot.

Money doesn't matter to them, nor should it to you. You don't need to feed your family when your parents will or if you can work the system/gov't through your tax money. Any day now, these fine specimens of airmen will lead a crusade that all pilots are already overpaid and underworked, and that it's literally fun to get the shaft by these very "reputable" companies. All that matters is you keep your trap shut, take it, and climb up that career ladder knocking every mofo off along the way. Who cares, about tomorrow when we are pilots today. Lead on men, lead on!

[flying4dollars]

Well folks, if you ever wondered why wages and lifestyle of our careers continued to be depressed, look no further to flying4dollars and godsrcrazy as shining examples of self serving wannabe a$$holes. Who enjoy the comforts of living in their parents basement slicking on those aviators trying to impress the ladies or men saying that they are an "airline" pilot.

Money doesn't matter to them, nor should it to you. You don't need to feed your family when your parents will or if you can work the system/gov't through your tax money. Any day now, these fine specimens of airmen will lead a crusade that all pilots are already overpaid and underworked, and that it's literally fun to get the shaft by these very "reputable" companies. All that matters is you keep your trap shut, take it, and climb up that career ladder knocking every mofo off along the way. Who cares, about tomorrow when we are pilots today. Lead on men, lead on!

Troll alert...

You come on here assuming I live at my parents and that money is of no object to me? Grow up. I pay my own mortgage without a second income, own 2 cars, and commute just fine with no debt. I make enough at GGN to support a lifestyle that makes me happy and requires little to no sacrifice which requires a salary that I am paid here. What's wrong with this picture? Nothing. I fail to see how this makes me a self serving wanna be a##hole. I, like the rest of my coworkers have done what we can to better the working conditions here and with respect to our last contract, to which the details I clearly won't post, prevented the bar from going lower. I would not have come here if the salary didn't support my lifestyle. That goes for any job, any company, any industry.

Posts like yours are truly unnecessary. You have your opinion about Georgian and I have mine. You don't have to agree with me, but me not agreeing with you doesn't make me or anyone else an a-hole and if you believe it does than I have nothing further to say to you. I'm not selling AG, I'm merely giving the rest of the readers my perspective of what MY experience is like. Take it and apply, or leave it and seek work elsewhere. Yes, it's that simple.

My apologies to the OP for detracting from the threat topic. I certainly wish those affected by the layoffs best of luck and hope you find work soon.

[calgaryguy]

Sorry but I can't stop laughing so hard I puke reading comments by some of these couch driving owners/ managers. Some of you really think you have it figured out. Management and owners should go broke so you stay employed. Heaven forbid some $hit disturber with seniority gets laid off before someone that just wants to do their job go home and get paid. That person would be called at butt kisser our just plain dumb by some on this forum. I have been in this industry for years. I have listened to and watched over a half dozen people think they would pay more and treat people better let alone think they were smarter then the owners/managers they worked for. The amazing part is I can think of 1 that didn't go broke and trust me he was no better then the guy we worked for. In fact there isn't a chance I would work for him. That being said I don't use his name our put him down. All the others went broke some because they wanted to be everyone friend and others because they were 10 times worse cutting costs and corners then those they criticized. The truth is its a free country. Slavery is long gone. No one forced you to be a pilot and no one can force you to stay. For some reason there are people on this forum and in this industry that believe because they are a pilot they are owed a living. If you don't like were you are then pack up your toys and go home.

$hitdisturbers 9 times out of 10 are a creation of inept management. Lack of support, lack of a fair and just culture, and being set up for failure will make some very unhappy people. Being told by management that the majority of them are unprofessional doesn't help either. Majority of friends at Sunwest I've talked to don't really care about getting paid more, but getting treated better and plan to talk with their feet when the opportunity presents itself.

[brooks]

Why are we talking about GGN on here again?

[AirMail]

Troll alert...

You come on here assuming I live at my parents and that money is of no object to me? Grow up. I pay my own mortgage without a second income, own 2 cars, and commute just fine with no debt. I make enough at GGN to support a lifestyle that makes me happy and requires little to no sacrifice which requires a salary that I am paid here. What's wrong with this picture? Nothing. I fail to see how this makes me a self serving wanna be a##hole. I, like the rest of my coworkers have done what we can to better the working conditions here and with respect to our last contract, to which the details I clearly won't post, prevented the bar from going lower. I would not have come here if the salary didn't support my lifestyle. That goes for any job, any company, any industry.

Posts like yours are truly unnecessary. You have your opinion about Georgian and I have mine. You don't have to agree with me, but me not agreeing with you doesn't make me or anyone else an a-hole and if you believe it does than I have nothing further to say to you. I'm not selling AG, I'm merely giving the rest of the readers my perspective of what MY experience is like. Take it and apply, or leave it and seek work elsewhere. Yes, it's that simple.

My apologies to the OP for detracting from the threat topic. I certainly wish those affected by the layoffs best of luck and hope you find work soon.

Yes the troll alert is you! Your perpetual support of a company which lowers the standards for their employees and the rest of the industry. Why is GGN one of the lowest paid 1900 and RJ drivers around? I'm pretty sure they can pay you guys more, but guys like you are just plumb having a "good sched" rather than having both lifestyle and pay if you just speak up for your profession.

I'll assume your not a new FO given your statements, as I highly doubt an new FO on those lousy wages can afford the "lifestyle" you enjoy. But you don't care about them do you? Nor do you care if other companies like NCA or SW will try to lower their pay to match that of GGN.

Additionally the take it or leave it spiel is weak and old spewed by lowlife companies and individuals. Why should it be a choice? Why can't it be "we're raising the bar, come join us"? The reason it isn't is because individuals like you are just happy as pigs in excrement to continue the race to the bottom.