Red Alert CYWG

roscoe · Post by **roscoe** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:37 am

This is not an attempt to stir the sh1t, or point fingers! I have noticed that WestJet and it's ground handling company do not observe the "Red Alert" warnings at CYWG Every other operator clears the ramp when the Thorgard, or whatever it is called now, warns of the probability of lightning strikes in the area, while WestJet comes and goes.
Do you have a better system?

Still love the work, just hate the job.

justplanecrazy · Post by **justplanecrazy** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:44 am

I noticed the news was going off about how T.O. was on red alert all day and wanted to clear something up. A red alert doesn't have anything to do with dangerous conditions that might cause an airplane crash or AFF on a higher level of standby. All the red alert indicates is that there is lightning in the area that may be hazerdous to ground crews.

roscoe · Post by **roscoe** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:35 pm

Youe interpretation of my use of the phrase "red alert" is exactly right.
The question still stands. Does WestJet have a policy that ignores the "red alert", or do they have a better or different system?

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:52 pm

WJ employees are expendable to the higher cause of profit. JetsGo followed the same policy with de-icing. The travelling public don't care as long as they arrive on time at the cheapest rate possible.

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:04 pm

The Idiot speaks again. Thanks for that, Rebel.

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:09 pm

"WJ employees are expendable to the higher cause of profit. "

Rebel

I hope you were just stirring the pot, because nothing could be further from the truth. All of the red alerts I have seen have been respected by WJ staff and contractors.

Roscoe

Since I was not there, I can not answer your question. I can only go by my previous experience.

Cheers

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:42 pm

Canus Chinookus

Answer the question and if you don't know the answer find out what happened..duhh

rampie · Post by **rampie** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:45 pm

I don't know about now, but up until a few years back AC used to manage the Thorguard system in YWG. When a red alert would occur, AC STOC would have a checklist of people they would have to advise. Obviously, they would focus their efforts on getting their staff off the ramp first and then when things settled down, they would advise everyone else (i.e. WAA Duty Manager, WestJet, NWA, ATS, GlobeGround, etc...) With some red alerts being quite quick, sometimes, other airlines, etc... would not get avised in time and the alert would end. The only way they would know is by the flashing white beacons in the corners of the terminal and they don't always work.

I believe the only group at YWG not to follow the Thorguard system was PLH as they appeared to have a better / more reliable system.

quickflight · Post by **quickflight** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:47 pm

canus and rebel you guys need to give it up grow up or shut up. Roscoe asks a valid question and you two morons highjack the thread once again for a pissing match out of your tiny weiners.

Snow Monkey · Post by **Snow Monkey** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:47 pm

Perhaps Roscoe you should contact WJA's flight operations dept. and OHSP voice your concerns to them.
It is my understanding that in those situations all personel are to take shelter and operations are halted. It seems that someone over ruled procedure be it the base manager or captain however its hard to understand why the ramp workers would continue to be out there in those conditions as they are contract handlers. In my experience at WJA I have not seen this type of blatant disregard for procedures. With all that said I wasn't there.
Maybe best to inquire into this through proper channels as it is a concern.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:31 pm

rampie

The last I heard the various airport authorities have taken over the management of the Thorguard sytem. They are the one’s that issue a red alert advisory to the various users of the system. The onus is then up to the airlines involved to manage the red alert according to their operations.

You are totally correct in your determination that the system was developed and paid for by AC and the advisory to the other airlines was on a courtesy basis only.

roscoe

So your question " Does WestJet have a policy that ignores the "red alert", or do they have a better or different system?" is totally valid. Might I suggest that you match the WJ flight times with the times of the red alert and you will have your answer.

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:41 pm

quickflight, I call the bullshit when I see it, and i'm tired of Rebel's idiocy. He sounds like a slightly more literate version of Blastor, and i'm going to call him on it every time he spouts off crap like he did earlier in the thread. You might also want to ask him why HE likes to highjack a thread...

As for the original post, I have never seen nor have I ever been involved in anything other than respecting the Red Alerts whenever we have been affected by them here at westjet. Also, even in a teal world... it's a little difficult to pushback or get the plane loaded when the ground crews are inside... Also don't forget only calgary has westjet staff handling airplanes, it's contracted out everywhere else.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:33 am

Canus Chinookus

You didn't answer the question. Grow up and do your homework and let WJ be accountable for their actions at least for one time. If any Captain just sat there and let anyone service his aircraft during thunderstorm activity while the rest of the ramp was respecting the red alert, well what can I say...Their personal standards are not very high and their motives are suspect.

The reason that the red alert was developed was due to the fatalities that had occurred on the ramp during thunderstorms.

... · Post by **...** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:32 am

ahem...

I personally witnessed Westjet not respect the red alert in Hamilton one week ago. I wont name the exact date or flight number because I don't want to get the crew in trouble, however, I have not seen the sky that dark in a long, long time. In fact we were delayed departure because the CB 'let go' over top our heads.

I usually fly out of YYZ but that airport is BrUtAl. YHM is STILL the ideal alternative airport.

double-j · Post by **double-j** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:38 am

I do not believe WJ intentionally disregards a red alert at any station. This is completely unprofessional and I have never witnessed this lack of professionalism in the flight deck no matter what some on this board think.

roscoe · Post by **roscoe** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:02 am

Sorry folks, I sure as heck did not intend to start another slanging match! Perhaps a little backgroung; The original "Thorgard" system was purchased and installed by Pacific Western ( another life, but we won't go there), and the information shared with all other operators at CYWG.
It has since been taken over by the WAA, and I'm not sure if it is the original unit or a new, improved version.
That being said, however, ATS, the ground agency, and WJ often, but not always perate through red alerts, thus giving rise to my original question.

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:37 am

don't feel bad, Roscoe, there'll always be guys like Rebel who like to turn an innocent question into something that wasn't intended.

whipline · Post by **whipline** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:47 am

Ironically enough I have witnessed it twice from the cockpit in YWG. Everyone else was waiting out the weather while WJ landed and departed. I am guessing it was more a crew thing than a company wide thing.

As for your de-icing comment Rebel did jetsgo not de-ice? Actually I have a question for you in regards to AC's policy and I will post it in the proper place.

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:31 am

I too, have wittnessed AC completely ignore the red alert in YWG while WS and SG sat and waited short of the gate.

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:47 am

[sarcasm]oh, come on, WJ700, that can't possibly be true! AC pilots coudln't possibly ever make a mistake! They're perfect, aren't they!?![/sarcasm]

Flapsforty · Post by **Flapsforty** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:17 pm

Compliance is vouluntary. If the ground crew decides it's safe it will load and unload aircraft. IT IS NOT!!!!! the crew's decision.

Cheers

Disco Stu · Post by **Disco Stu** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:53 am

Last weekend in YWG my uncle's WJ flight was not unloaded for 2 hours due to the storms moving through and the Thoroguard system being activated.

fmrc3ame · Post by **fmrc3ame** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:16 pm

Compliance is vouluntary.

Not true. If ground crews are caught out during red alerts then they are given warnings or companies are given notice of infraction. In either case the company is made aware of the incident, if caught. Having personally worked the ramp for many years I have seen pilots taxi to the stand without marshallers, crazy but they still do it to keep their times good. Just my $0.02.