Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
Interesting read.
I don't think there is a shortage right now of pilots but globally a shortage of good conditions, it may eventually drive toward a real shortage.
IATA's bean counters should start understanding that crews are not animals and airlines are more profitable when employees are happy.
There is work to be done globally with all this P2F crap and globalisation non sense. All we hear about is IATA speaking of size of luggage, pilots getting psychological follow up or laser attacks...
Anyways food for thoughs on the profession.
https://disciplesofflight.com/pilot-sho ... pilots-go/
I don't think there is a shortage right now of pilots but globally a shortage of good conditions, it may eventually drive toward a real shortage.
IATA's bean counters should start understanding that crews are not animals and airlines are more profitable when employees are happy.
There is work to be done globally with all this P2F crap and globalisation non sense. All we hear about is IATA speaking of size of luggage, pilots getting psychological follow up or laser attacks...
Anyways food for thoughs on the profession.
https://disciplesofflight.com/pilot-sho ... pilots-go/
- Boreas
- Rank 5
- Posts: 376
- Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:06 pm
- Location: The haunted corners of familiar rooms
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
So potential pilots will go into other industries because its so much better there?timel wrote:Interesting read.
I don't think there is a shortage right now of pilots but globally a shortage of good conditions, it may eventually drive toward a real shortage.
I'd like to think that's the case but I can't.
Maximizing profits while treating workers like shit is becoming the norm across the board. Its runaway capitalism coupled with the fact that there are over 7 billion people on this increasingly globalized planet, and rising. Throw in technology's net effect of eliminating jobs and you get exactly whats happening right now: The rich are getting richer and the middle class is disappearing.
It would have happened earlier if it wasn't for the Cold War.
-
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1989
- Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
I know a couple pilots and an AME that have left the industry for that exact reason. Nursing, construction, and one guy is driving a f*ing 18-wheeler and prefers it to aviation.Boreas wrote:So potential pilots will go into other industries because its so much better there?
I'd like to think that's the case but I can't.
There are some good companies out there, but some are also pretty crap. Work for a string of bad companies, and it's enough to make people give up on the profession and the industry.
When the airlines and operators start complaining about the "pilot shortage", I just laugh and know that they brought it on themselves. There's lots of people who were professional pilots that said f*** this and are doing something else. About 25% of pilots I know said they would do something different if they could start over again.
-
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1187
- Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:28 pm
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
I did just that, in 1990. Had I stayed flying full time, today, I'd probably be stuck in either Toronto, Calgary or Montreal, slave to a seniority number.Boreas wrote:So potential pilots will go into other industries because its so much better there?
I'd like to think that's the case but I can't.
Life is good on my side of the fence.
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
Where'd all the pilots go?
My French is not so good but I believe this job ad requires 10 000TT
Now you know.
My French is not so good but I believe this job ad requires 10 000TT
Now you know.
- Attachments
-
- cocoon-french-movie-poster-15x21-85-don-ameche-ron-howard.jpg (125.15 KiB) Viewed 3263 times
-
- Top Poster
- Posts: 8132
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:25 pm
- Location: Winterfell...
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
Soon you'll be able to go anywhere in the world for $100.... all flights connecting through Beijing or Mumbai.
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
- Boreas
- Rank 5
- Posts: 376
- Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:06 pm
- Location: The haunted corners of familiar rooms
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
We can find whatever examples we want. I know lots of guys that have moved into aviation as their second career. Teacher, engineers and architects - I've flown with these guys.
My take on this is that the grass is far from greener on the other side. What's happening in aviation is happening to one extent or another everywhere else.
My take on this is that the grass is far from greener on the other side. What's happening in aviation is happening to one extent or another everywhere else.
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
I've met people who've moved into aviation after careers in other professions and be happy as clams. And I've met people who've left aviation for a real job and be as happy as a clam!
Different strokes for different folks.
Different strokes for different folks.
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
I agree. The reality, it is more and more difficult to afford pilot training, some guys who come with financial background, it helps.Boreas wrote:We can find whatever examples we want. I know lots of guys that have moved into aviation as their second career. Teacher, engineers and architects - I've flown with these guys.
When I started my training the 172 it was like 105$/hr, now it is beyond 160$/hr in some flight schools.
I agree again, I think this is the general trend, it is becoming more and more difficult, the price of rents, condos and houses keeps on growing in major cities, fuel will come back eventually, groceries is more expensive as well and CEOs are getting better bonuses every year...WAWCONs are going down.My take on this is that the grass is far from greener on the other side. What's happening in aviation is happening to one extent or another everywhere else.
Airline are making record profits.
http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/09 ... e-20140210
-
- Rank Moderator
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:47 pm
- Location: Straight outta Dundarave...
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
Ahhh...I'll walk, thanks..iflyforpie wrote:Soon you'll be able to go anywhere in the world for $100.... all flights connecting through Beijing or Mumbai.
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
-
- Top Poster
- Posts: 8132
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:25 pm
- Location: Winterfell...
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
You and I might, but the uninformed and ruthlessly stingy flying public will probably be overjoyed.... just like when they took that Liberian registered cruise ship last fall.
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
-
- Rank 7
- Posts: 564
- Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:00 pm
- Location: YYZ
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
Not hard to find other jobs that pay more. And the old adage about "putting your time in and it will pay off" is bullshit. Talk to the thousands of American Regional Airline pilots getting recycled into the system when their regional airlines cost structure gets "too expensive" because of top-of-scale labour. Sickening
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
Well yeah, check out Sunwing's vacation specials...how much of that $399 round trip is going towards paying the pilots...
-
- Rank Moderator
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:47 pm
- Location: Straight outta Dundarave...
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
^ I wonder? Lots of noise about TFWs there, but never heard people bitch about the pay?
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
rwy15,
You will be surprised but the pay you can get at Sunwing is one of the best around. Hourly rate is pretty much the same as at the other airlines; but you can easily make overtime...first year I made about 90K.
You will be surprised but the pay you can get at Sunwing is one of the best around. Hourly rate is pretty much the same as at the other airlines; but you can easily make overtime...first year I made about 90K.
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
FL320,
Then, I stand corrected!
Then, I stand corrected!
-
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2565
- Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:07 pm
- Location: Negative sequencial vortex
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
FL 320, are you a captain or a first officer? If you're an FO then you're right, that's pretty good. If you're a captain, well, you know.
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
It is well know Canadian FOs at Sunwing make good money with overtime, I think it is awesome.
But they also get tfw pilots, not fair for the Canadian pilots, they will destroy the market if this continues.
But they also get tfw pilots, not fair for the Canadian pilots, they will destroy the market if this continues.
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
Meatservo, I was FO. I've flown with some Captains (Canadian) who were saying they earn well above 200K (I've been told 300K from a very senior guy). I've never seen their paycheck but I know it's easy to make some overtime at 1,5 then 2 times the hourly rate (plus the per diems if you deploy).
I've flown with some foreign Captains from Germany and I've seen their payscale; it's even better if you convert what they earn in euro (even the FOs). Most of these foreign pilots are not forced to deploy.
Czech pilots is another story....
I do not agree with the TFW; but I have to admit that QOL at Sunwing is not bad at all and it's not the cheapest employer around.
I've flown with some foreign Captains from Germany and I've seen their payscale; it's even better if you convert what they earn in euro (even the FOs). Most of these foreign pilots are not forced to deploy.
Czech pilots is another story....
I do not agree with the TFW; but I have to admit that QOL at Sunwing is not bad at all and it's not the cheapest employer around.
Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?
I had a conversation a while back about life as a pilot. At the end of that talk, I asked what a commercial, mulit-ifr is going for these days. The gentleman told me $120K. I've asked around since then and heard everything from $105K to $120K. I know all you guys in Ontario get it for as close to free as can be... but lets put that aside for a moment.
The truth is, at these numbers, the economics of the job no longer make sense. You are going to pay $100K+ to get a $20K a year job upon graduation (if you're lucky)? You could spend that kind of money and be a doctor and make much more just in your residency. You could be a lawyer and make more during your articling. You could go to school and be a pharmacist and have a company pay for your entire schooling as a signing bonus to come work for them. The reality is, it doesn't make sense to become a pilot now... not unless something changes. The return on investment isn't there for us any more.
The truth is, at these numbers, the economics of the job no longer make sense. You are going to pay $100K+ to get a $20K a year job upon graduation (if you're lucky)? You could spend that kind of money and be a doctor and make much more just in your residency. You could be a lawyer and make more during your articling. You could go to school and be a pharmacist and have a company pay for your entire schooling as a signing bonus to come work for them. The reality is, it doesn't make sense to become a pilot now... not unless something changes. The return on investment isn't there for us any more.
I'm going to knock this up a notch with my spice weasle. Bam!