Aircraft landing without other aircraft down and clear.

[crazyaviator]

From my experience, when there is an IFR inbound and you are on the ground, ready for departure,,FSS does take a more controlling position. If its to do with VFR arriving,,,its an advisory position.

I once sold a Quickie 1 A/C to a fella from Brampton. Long story short, he took off on 33 and lost control, the plane went into a ditch and turned over,,,,, everything was fine until he went and disconnected his shoulder harness and hit his head on the canopy!!! I heard of this incident days later when i went to Brampton on business and was taxiing along a taxiway and noticed my old Quickie UPSIDE DOWN and tied down in its parking spot !! Seems they carried the plane upside down and plopped her right there. We had a few laughs on the phone and all is well !

[CpnCrunch]

From my experience, when there is an IFR inbound and you are on the ground, ready for departure,,FSS does take a more controlling position. If its to do with VFR arriving,,,its an advisory position.

Even VFR they tend to give you instructions if you appear to be doing something dumb. Or, they will keep telling you that the circuit is in the other direction until you get it through your thick skull that you should perhaps conform.

However I find that general traffic advisories from FSS can't really be relied on. ATC are much more proactive about avoiding conflicts, whereas FSS will usually just give you a general idea of where other traffic might be and leave it up to you to do something about it.

[Rookie50]

From my experience, when there is an IFR inbound and you are on the ground, ready for departure,,FSS does take a more controlling position. If its to do with VFR arriving,,,its an advisory position.

Even VFR they tend to give you instructions if you appear to be doing something dumb. Or, they will keep telling you that the circuit is in the other direction until you get it through your thick skull that you should perhaps conform.

However I find that general traffic advisories from FSS can't really be relied on. ATC are much more proactive about avoiding conflicts, whereas FSS will usually just give you a general idea of where other traffic might be and leave it up to you to do something about it.

+1. Hence my question. Not to mention repeating the same traffic to 3 different people can result in a lot of radio clutter, which can mean # 4 can't broadcast in a timely manner. It's a some what, can be confusing (to new pilots) half control setup. When it's really busy it's worse than simple UC when pilots can directly work out conflicts. Other times it's OK I guess. JMO.

[crazyaviator]

+1. Hence my question. Not to mention repeating the same traffic to 3 different people can result in a lot of radio clutter, which can mean # 4 can't broadcast in a timely manner. It's a some what, can be confusing (to new pilots) half control setup. When it's really busy it's worse than simple UC when pilots can directly work out conflicts. Other times it's OK I guess. JMO

Nailed that one on the head !

[W0XOF]

+1. Hence my question. Not to mention repeating the same traffic to 3 different people can result in a lot of radio clutter, which can mean # 4 can't broadcast in a timely manner. It's a some what, can be confusing (to new pilots) half control setup. When it's really busy it's worse than simple UC when pilots can directly work out conflicts. Other times it's OK I guess. JMO

Nailed that one on the head !

Your local FSS should be more proactive. Ones with radar should be tailor making their traffic information, and only need to repeat traffic to more than one aircraft when none of the aircraft have each other in sight and have no plan to resolve the conflict. I understand your concern above and some FSS (usually the slower ones) operate that way and they shouldn't be. Busier sites can't operate that way as the specialist would get buried in traffic and conflicts fast. I would complain to your local FSS Supervisor to make it more efficient and safe. You should be getting better service than that. Not happy to hear that goes on still.

I work in one of the busier FSS in the country, and work with the mainline carriers and their regionals, and several other air carriers daily (plus schools and GA) and we could not get away with that with professional pilots/carriers or the schools. To be fair, we couldn't be as efficient without radar (not all sites have coverage).

Also you mention broadcasting above and directly working out conflicts with other pilots, that actually is contravening CAR 602.98.2.(a)
602.98 (1) Every report made pursuant to this Division shall be made on the mandatory frequency that has been specified for use in the applicable MF area.

(2) Every report referred to in subsection (1) shall be

(a) directed to the ground station associated with the MF area, if a ground station exists and is in operation; or

(b) broadcast, if a ground station does not exist or is not in operation.

[Rookie50]

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[W0XOF]

Where exactly did I mention contravening CARS by broadcasting, or advocating of same, directly to other pilots in an operating MF environment?

Isn't this a quote from your post???

+1. Hence my question. Not to mention repeating the same traffic to 3 different people can result in a lot of radio clutter, which can mean # 4 can't broadcast in a timely manner. It's a some what, can be confusing (to new pilots) half control setup. When it's really busy it's worse than simple UC when pilots can directly work out conflicts. Other times it's OK I guess. JMO

[Rookie50]

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[W0XOF]

Wow............

I was only replying to what you had written in your post. I'm not a mind reader. I'm not sure how I would have realized that you actually didn't mean "broadcast" when that is the term that you used, especially when the term broadcast actually means something specific in aviation.

For the record, I do have the utmost respect for pilots and the work they do. Because of pilots, I have a career that I enjoy and has afforded me and my family a good life. On a work day, I spend more time talking to pilots than I do my own wife. I also have several very good friends who are pilots, from the airlines to tanker pilots to GA.

All the best.

[Rookie50]

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[photofly]

You could accurately say that any radio transmission is a broadcast, even if addressed to only one station. So you're both right. Now kiss and makeup.

[Rookie50]

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[W0XOF]

You used the term broadcast, not me.

"Broadcasting" is used in MF's without a ground station or an ATF. It's specific in the CAR's reference. If you don't understand the terms you are using and somebody points out what the term means, or you realize you have used it wrong, use it as a learning experience. Pretty hard to understand somebody's post if they don't know what they're talking about and then they feel sorry for themselves and get mad when they realize it.

I included the CAR's reference because low time pilots who have only flown in tower environments generally don't know MF procedures at an aerodrome with an FSS and they do broadcast. Your incorrect use of the term doesn't help that.

Why didn't you just say that broadcast isn't the term you meant without all the drama???

This is a good forum and members will challenge you. I wasn't trying to be rude or offend you, but you used a term that has a specific use in aviation and I could only assume you knew what it meant and you meant what you posted. You're fault, not mine.

[photofly]

broad·cast
ˈbrôdˌkast/
verb
1.
transmit (a program or some information) by radio or television.
"the announcement was broadcast live"

Don't see anything about MFs there. I make radio broadcasts to the tower controller all day long.

[W0XOF]

Your radio broaddcasts, you direct communications to the tower. That's the difference.

[photofly]

No, I'm pretty sure I broadcast on the tower frequency using my radio. I'll check tomorrow. Or maybe it's just the antenna that does the broadcasting, I direct communications to the tower, and the radio modulates my voice onto an RF carrier which the RG59a coax transmits to the antenna. Probably more accurately, to the BNC connector on the base of the antenna. Or perhaps it's not my voice that's modulated perhaps it's the waveform that matches my voice as transduced by the microphone. Or more accurately, transduced by the magnet moving in a tiny coil of wire within the microphone that does the transducing. And maybe it's the dielectric in the coax that really does the transmission and the copper conductors merely support the electric field. Who knows.

[W0XOF]

I'm pretty sure you don't Marconi. Pretty distinct difference in CAR's between a traffic broadcast and directing communications.

[photofly]

I don't think he said a "traffic broadcast" which is a noun. He said broadcast, as a verb. Do the CARs mention the verb to broadcast? I can't remember.

[W0XOF]

This is an aviation forum and not an RF theory forum. The cheese certainly does stand alone..........

[Rookie50]

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