Weekend Annuals.

[Hornblower]

There is more than one way to skin a cat; GPSs are more accurate than a hand held land or master compass all day long.

[Heliian]

There is more than one way to skin a cat; GPSs are more accurate than a hand held land or master compass all day long.

not while stationary, and you're not swinging a gps. A magnetic compass needs to be aligned with magnetic headings. Now if you want to do that in flight as a correlation check then it's all good, in fact we don't have to swing unless there is a big deviation (705).

[Hornblower]

Nope, swinging the whiskey compass with the aid of the aircraft DG, the GPS and enough ramp space to roll the aircraft in one direction for about 75 feet, works like a dream and will always produce better results than doing it with a hand held master or land compass - always!

[Hornblower]

Not that I am advocating any kind of scheduled compass swing — biggest waste of time ever!

[crazyaviator]

Nope, swinging the whiskey compass with the aid of the aircraft DG, the GPS and enough ramp space to roll the aircraft in one direction for about 75 feet, works like a dream and will always produce better results than doing it with a hand held master or land compass - always!

Hard to imagine that !!

biggest waste of time ever!

Maybe so but it is a requirement and who knows, maybe some day between now and the second coming, a pilot may need the whiskey or the compass or both to save his/her bacon !

If an AME pencils in a compass swing, what else is he/she/it penciling in without looking or doing the task?

[torquey401]

Out of phase tasks are the aircraft owners responsibility and they are part of the inspection requirements. Owners control the what and when. If someone doesn't want their compass swung or their altimeter calibrated or whatever else is in the list, not the AME's problem as far as the CARS are concerned. I bet a tort lawyer would plead the opposite.

[crazyaviator]

not the AME's problem as far as the CARS are concerned

It is a problem when the compass swing and any other CARS 625 appendix items ( required) are not done and yet not entered in the JLB as not completed. Example: Prop is never removed for 15 yrs for the 5 yr. insp. and develops a crack and takes the pilot to the grave,,,, You can be sure the AME will be in court defending him/herself if through negligence didn't do the work OR reduced his liability by entering the work not done in the JLB ! The widow wont be blaming the idiot/ owner/pilot /husband for not wanting the inspection done but will blame the AME for not doing it since there is NO record of the owner being aware it wasn't done or the AME entering it in the JLB indicating it wasn't done by owners request

[torquey401]

The CARS only require a brief description of the work done in the records. The work not done does not need to be included. But from a liability standpoint, I would be having copies of my entries and certifications for my own files, plus something on paper indicating that Mr Owner has declined his compass to be calibrated because it is BS in his opinion.

Got to love aviation!

[Hornblower]

Not sayin' that the compass swing is not required (by law) to be done, just that it is a waste of time and money if there is nothing wrong with it. The pilot of the aircraft is best positioned to say when it needs to be done. If the owner doesn't do it, that's their business, however they will be in violation of car 605.86 if it flies.

[Hornblower]

Hard to imagine that !!

Don't imagine it ... try it, you'll be converted; I promise. Swung compasses forever with that stupid land compass — relegated to the tool room now.

[Hornblower]

Example: Prop is never removed for 15 yrs for the 5 yr. insp. and develops a crack and takes the pilot to the grave,,,,

Bad example ... could never happen. There is no requirement for NDT at that inspection, and if there was a naked-eye-visible crack in a fixed pitch prop, it would be too late - prop would have failed long before you get eyes on it.

Let’s face it a bunch of that appendix C stuff is BS and doesn't need to be done ... don't get me started! Shit like that drives the small airplane owner out of the game and is ultimately bad for all of us. At some point a rational person will look at the wasted money and withdraw from GA altogether. It's also getting really difficult to attract new entrants when you explain that they have to pay literally thousands of dollars a year on completely unnecessary maintenance. Bad for GA, bad for AMEs working in GA.

[crazyaviator]

I agree ! repetative foolishness, ancient engines, overpriced everything,

[Badfarmer]

FYI;
Refer to Standard 625 App B - Maintenance Schedules;
Each person performing inspections required by the maintenance schedule shall record the inspections in the aircraft technical record, using a check list that includes all items in Parts I or II that are applicable to the aircraft concerned. Additionally, all tasks required by Appendix C shall be recorded in the aircraft technical record.
and; This maintenance schedule is not an inspection checklist. Prior to performing the inspections tabled herein, an appropriate checklist containing these requirements must be developed.

Ive spent the last 5 years developing a business, with a hangar and full time staff. Even a Cessna 150 takes about 12 hours to inspect properly IF you do any work to. Simply inspecting in accordance with the Manufacturers checklist (if you read the C150 Maint Manual, it states to clean and inspect wheel bearings, change the oil and clean the filter element, perform a compression check, in other words, the manufacture requires that work be performed rather than just a checkbox initialed off). More than can be completed in a single weekend. If you do your job well and don't cut corners, it will cost the owner a bit more, but word of mouth is your best advertisement.

[Strega]

Even a Cessna 150 takes about 12 hours to inspect properly

And you wonder why GA is dying.....

FYI I have R and Rd an engine in less than 8 hours.... Just sayin...

[PilotDAR]

Even a Cessna 150 takes about 12 hours to inspect properly IF you do any work to. Simply inspecting in accordance with the Manufacturers checklist (if you read the C150 Maint Manual, it states to clean and inspect wheel bearings, change the oil and clean the filter element, perform a compression check, in other words, the manufacture requires that work be performed rather than just a checkbox initialed off). More than can be completed in a single weekend. If you do your job well and don't cut corners, it will cost the owner a bit more, but word of mouth is your best advertisement.

+1

[Meecka]

Even a Cessna 150 takes about 12 hours to inspect properly

And you wonder why GA is dying.....

FYI I have R and Rd an engine in less than 8 hours.... Just sayin...

Good for you.

[GyvAir]

Even a Cessna 150 takes about 12 hours to inspect properly IF you do any work to. Simply inspecting in accordance with the Manufacturers checklist (if you read the C150 Maint Manual, it states to clean and inspect wheel bearings, change the oil and clean the filter element, perform a compression check, in other words, the manufacture requires that work be performed rather than just a checkbox initialed off). More than can be completed in a single weekend. If you do your job well and don't cut corners, it will cost the owner a bit more, but word of mouth is your best advertisement.

+1

+2

If I saw the same 150 2 or three weeks ago, no, it's not going to take anywhere near 12 hours.
If however, it's a total unknown to me, or worse, is owned by someone that I know has had a poor working relationship with every AME in the district and is now hat in hand at my door, the annual is going to be the full meal deal before I put my name in the logbook. You want a quickie at a quickie price? There are other establishments for that.

FYI I have R and Rd an engine in less than 8 hours.... Just sayin...

Not sure how that's relevant, but hey, you're a freakin' rockstar!

[PilotDAR]

Even a Cessna 150 takes about 12 hours to inspect properly

And you wonder why GA is dying.....

FYI I have R and Rd an engine in less than 8 hours.... Just sayin...

Rule books are paper - they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.

So, you're just sayin that GA is dying because some maintainers choose to apply at least 12 hours to a C150 annual inspection? Or, you're saying that GA is dying because people could focus only on the paper, instead of doing something properly (like a 12 hour annual) and metal could meet stone?

I only have 28 years experience maintaining a C150, but I cannot perform an annual inspection in 12 hours, and I cannot re n re an engine in 8 hours, and produce a flight ready C150.

C150, and all other owners, if you want to fly a safe plane, pay a competent maintainer to maintain it properly and completely! Really.... think about it... you're crossing Toronto, or a large forested stretch, and the engine burps - suddenly the possibility of a forced approach crosses your mind. Was saving a few hundred bucks on the inspection worth it?

My friend spent a silly amount of money with a "fix everything" approach to his newly acquired and modified 1977 C182. But his reward? 244 hours of 100% reliability, and the ONLY snag at the next annual inspection was one leaking primer line. He's smiling, and happy he spent the money for a proper job....

Those of us who work in aviation would like to be fairly paid for fair work, and we would like to be proud of the work we do, without being nickeled and dimed into letting questionable airworthiness out the door. You tip a waitress for assuring that your steak was cooked to your liking right? Just pay the maintainer to get your plane right!

[qa guy]

Not quite correct! Any and all airworthiness related defects MUST be entered in the Journey logbook ( If they are not rectified on the annual ) , NOT scribbled on a sheet of paper.

Where does it state this in the cars? You may want to have a look at CAR 605 schedule 1. A person who conducts an annual inspection on a privately registered airplane is not required to specify defects deferred by owner during an inspection in the Journey log. Only the work conducted needs to be described. Although I would recommend having a record of those items deferred by owner.

[crazyaviator]

SCHEDULE I - journey log entries CARS
(Paragraph 604.127(i), subsection 605.94(1) and Item 3 of Schedule II)

Particulars of any defect in any part of the aircraft or its equipment that becomes apparent during flight operations
As soon as practicable after the defect is discovered but, at the latest, before the next flight
The pilot-in-command of the aircraft

Except where a technical dispatch procedure is in place in accordance with section 706.06, the particulars of any defect in any part of the aircraft or its equipment that is not rectified before the next flight
Before the next flight
The person who discovered the defect

[crazyaviator]

Private A/C don't have a technical dispatch procedure therefore as noted above, the person who discovered the defect ( AME, owner, apprentice, tim hortons employee etc ) MUST enter the defect in the journey logbook if it is not rectified, BEFORE the next flight !

[crazyaviator]

A person who conducts an annual inspection on a privately registered airplane is not required to specify defects deferred by owner during an inspection in the Journey log.

So you change a few bolts and the oil ,,, notice the elevator cable 3/4 frayed through but the owner doesn't think the plane will be flying for a month,,, so you sign off the annual,,,,, Next thing you know,, the plane has made a smoking hole,,, WHY ? the owner forgot the cable and some students came in and borrowed his plane ( or maybe it was a flying club) . IF the responsible person put the airworthiness defect in the journey logbook like the CARS state, then the smoking hole wouldn't have happened,,,,,IF the AME went a step further and specifically stated " A/C unserviceable due to worn elevator cable", do you think that smoking hole would have happened QA Guy?

[Rookie50]

Even a Cessna 150 takes about 12 hours to inspect properly

And you wonder why GA is dying.....

FYI I have R and Rd an engine in less than 8 hours.... Just sayin...

Rule books are paper - they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.

So, you're just sayin that GA is dying because some maintainers choose to apply at least 12 hours to a C150 annual inspection? Or, you're saying that GA is dying because people could focus only on the paper, instead of doing something properly (like a 12 hour annual) and metal could meet stone?

I only have 28 years experience maintaining a C150, but I cannot perform an annual inspection in 12 hours, and I cannot re n re an engine in 8 hours, and produce a flight ready C150.

C150, and all other owners, if you want to fly a safe plane, pay a competent maintainer to maintain it properly and completely! Really.... think about it... you're crossing Toronto, or a large forested stretch, and the engine burps - suddenly the possibility of a forced approach crosses your mind. Was saving a few hundred bucks on the inspection worth it?

My friend spent a silly amount of money with a "fix everything" approach to his newly acquired and modified 1977 C182. But his reward? 244 hours of 100% reliability, and the ONLY snag at the next annual inspection was one leaking primer line. He's smiling, and happy he spent the money for a proper job....

Those of us who work in aviation would like to be fairly paid for fair work, and we would like to be proud of the work we do, without being nickeled and dimed into letting questionable airworthiness out the door. You tip a waitress for assuring that your steak was cooked to your liking right? Just pay the maintainer to get your plane right!

+1, +100. Same story. Over 300 hours for me so far on mine, and nothing, except for a mag that went south.

Doing it right should override the one - upmanship game through trying to save a hour.

[Badfarmer]

I wish there were a 'LIKE' button of some sort of feature - pilotDAR and crazyaviator, with guys like you around it brings great hope for future AMEs!

[Hornblower]

SCHEDULE I - journey log entries CARS
(Paragraph 604.127(i), subsection 605.94(1) and Item 3 of Schedule II)

Seriously — CAR 604 for weekend annuals ... not really what we are talking about here.

And CAR 605 does not apply to a person doing maintenance unless that person is also the person operating the aircraft. See CAR 605.01.

The only rules that apply to AMEs re log books are in CAR 571. So no, there is no requirement to enter defects or anthing else in the log book, and even that is questionable since the logbook is not the property of the AME, it belongs to the aircraft owner. An AME can put in a log only what the owner allows him to put ... in theory.

A maintenance release pertains only to the work done, and any unfinished work, and not to work that was not done. Controlling the condition and maintenance of the aircraft is 100% the owners responsibility. AMEs are not the maintenance police; that is Transport Canada's job. If you are an AME, don't get all holier than thou; it is not your responsibility to save the world. Aircraft owners have to put on their big boy pants (as they are required to by law) and take responsibility for the condition and airworthiness of their aircraft. AMEs are NOT RESPONSIBLE for anything other than the maintenance that they do.