PPL Pilot looking for a "Flying Buddy" to get solo CPL hours

[Che]

Hey guys,

I work full time and do not fly very often, but would like to start in the next few months weather permitting! If anyone is interested in sharing some time or even coming along for flights (x-countries) with me for "experience" please PM me. I have my PPL and need about 40 solo hours to complete my CPL. I'm in the Toronto area. I thought I'd give it a shot.

Thanks!

Let me know.

[Bede]

You cannot have someone else in your airplane for the solo hours (unless it's the time building portion). Solo is sole occupant of the aircraft.

[Meatservo]

You cannot have someone else in your airplane for the solo hours (unless it's the time building portion). Solo is sole occupant of the aircraft.

He's talking about the time-building part. He's got his PPL. He can fly with another person to his heart's content and log every second of it.

[Che]

You cannot have someone else in your airplane for the solo hours (unless it's the time building portion). Solo is sole occupant of the aircraft.

He's talking about the time-building part. He's got his PPL. He can fly with another person to his heart's content and log every second of it.

Yes, thank you. It's the time building. I have my PPL license.

[upintheair_]

You cannot have someone else in your airplane for the solo hours (unless it's the time building portion). Solo is sole occupant of the aircraft.

Yes you can. It just has to be decided ahead of time and agreed who PIC is.

If you can't fly with another person, how come virtually everyone does their 300XC with another person?

[SuperchargedRS]

The "quotation" makes don't make it look sketch at all

[Bede]

I know he has his PPL. He can have a passenger for time building but not for the 30 hours solo requirement for the CPL.

I should mention that I know this many of us did this, but this is the way TC interprets it now. No more training flight with 2 students. This as per recent TC refresher course.

[loopa]

You cannot have someone else in your airplane for the solo hours (unless it's the time building portion). Solo is sole occupant of the aircraft.

how come virtually everyone does their 300XC with another person?

This is exactly what bede is touching on. Although I'm sure many have gotten away with the 300xc with a pax, it is actually within the 30 hours solo build up time for the CPL, hence it's "training time" and as a result no pax are to be on board. I believe transport has actually cracked down on the flight schools pretty hard with this as of late.

As for your 100 hours PIC that you need to build towards, absolutely can you take someone with you. You can get further and experience a lot more for the same price you'd be paying to do a shorter trip yourself. Just like said earlier, establish who is the PIC. Just as a suggestion, I'd suggest getting your night rating, and CPL dual cross country training done before you head out. Just remember, you can't be counting this as your 300nm trip.

Have fun!

[Che]

Thank you for the great advice.

[Bede]

Loopa is correct. Solo is solo. PIC is PIC. 2 different requirements.

The rationale is that many college send students together, perhaps for safety reasons. Invariably, the stronger (either skill or personality) takes charge and the other student may never get any real practise making decisions. In one case I heard, the one student never even flew the aircraft because he didn't have much confidence and always asked his partner to do the flying.

[Meatservo]

I did not know that. I'm pretty sure I did my cross-country flight with another person. I didn't know this was a "thing". Apologies for butting into a conversation I obviously don't know enough about.

[Rookie50]

Didn't know this either. Naively I've always thought after being licenced all hours without an instructor were "PIC". I'm confused. Not that it remotely matters.

[ahramin]

Glad I squeaked in before this became an issue. I had 4 passengers on my 300 nm trip .

[loopa]

I'm confused.

The CPL requirement is 35 hours dual, 30 hours solo, 100 hours pic (amidst other requirements but not needed for discussions sake).

Within the 30 hour solo requirement, there's a need to complete a Commercial Flight Training Cross Country Flight of 300 nm or greater with 3 full stop landings. What a lot of students were doing is flying a lot of xc flights to build their 100 hours pic, and used one of them that was greater than 300nm with 3 stops or more as the flight to fulfil the xc requirement. This is incorrect. Albeit PIC time was being accumulated, it was not done under the CPL flight training syllabus, and was not necessarily a reflection of your honed skills after 5 hours of xc training in the CPL syllabus (what ever that does for you ).

I guess the argument TC is making is yes it's PIC time (which is what you get when you fly solo), but there's no proof it was part of the CPL syllabus. And if it was training time (as in part of the syllabus), it's a solo flight that gets logged in the PTR. Anything in the PTR is with no PAX. It's either the Student/Instructor combo, or just the student (no different than PPL course). Again, people have gotten away with this in the past, but recent audits of flight schools has indicated that this is a mistake that needs to be rectified. I'd be surprised if most of the flight schools aren't briefing their students/instructors on TC's stance with this.

Another suggestion, try to knock out as much of your 25 night pic xc time as possible on this trip you're doing with a flying buddy. It's a requirement you'll run into when time comes for your A's if you want to prevent renting a 172 again. Unless of course if you get to fly PIC as a CPL on a machine that doesn't need A's.

[upintheair_]

Didn't know this either. Naively I've always thought after being licenced all hours without an instructor were "PIC". I'm confused. Not that it remotely matters.

Same. All my solo hours are logged as PIC.

I personally did my 300 by myself. It was a long day...

[upintheair_]

I'm confused.

The CPL requirement is 35 hours dual, 30 hours solo, 100 hours pic (amidst other requirements but not needed for discussions sake).

Within the 30 hour solo requirement, there's a need to complete a Commercial Flight Training Cross Country Flight of 300 nm or greater with 3 full stop landings. What a lot of students were doing is flying a lot of xc flights to build their 100 hours pic, and used one of them that was greater than 300nm with 3 stops or more as the flight to fulfil the xc requirement. This is incorrect.

Yeah I don't think this is right to do it this way either. A lot of my solo time building was done on my own, without having to brief my instructor or get a sign out. The 300XC as well as the rest of the 30 hours solo (which is supposed to be 'supervised') required a full brief on the routing, fuel stops, weather, alternates etc.

Heck, half the time for my 100 PIC hours I just threw a quick foreflight route together for a hop over to Victoria or Nanimo.

As for the PTR thing, I guess this is a recent issue. I originally never logged my time building in my PTR but was told to by my instructor and the CFI. Many of those trips had friends along, and their names were written in my PTR as the PAX. I never ran into an issue... Again I guess this is a new issue coming forward.

[loopa]

I'm confused.

The CPL requirement is 35 hours dual, 30 hours solo, 100 hours pic (amidst other requirements but not needed for discussions sake).

Within the 30 hour solo requirement, there's a need to complete a Commercial Flight Training Cross Country Flight of 300 nm or greater with 3 full stop landings. What a lot of students were doing is flying a lot of xc flights to build their 100 hours pic, and used one of them that was greater than 300nm with 3 stops or more as the flight to fulfil the xc requirement. This is incorrect.

Yeah I don't think this is right to do it this way either. A lot of my solo time building was done on my own, without having to brief my instructor or get a sign out. The 300XC as well as the rest of the 30 hours solo (which is supposed to be 'supervised') required a full brief on the routing, fuel stops, weather, alternates etc.

Heck, half the time for my 100 PIC hours I just threw a quick foreflight route together for a hop over to Victoria or Nanimo.

As for the PTR thing, I guess this is a recent issue. I originally never logged my time building in my PTR but was told to by my instructor and the CFI. Many of those trips had friends along, and their names were written in my PTR as the PAX. I never ran into an issue... Again I guess this is a new issue coming forward.

Just to be clear, you don't need to be putting your "time building" in the PTR. Only the CPL syllabus, which is 30 hours solo and 35 hours dual then the requirements within those hours.

[upintheair_]

Yes, this I know. What I was saying was originally I wasn't putting them in there but was told to. I know it's wrong now, but at the end of the day I' have the blue book so that's all that matters.

[7ECA]

Go figure, hauling my Dad along on the 300nm puts my in contravention of some unwritten rule. He's not even a pilot, so who cares...

AS for logging in the PTR, trust me, you want to put every flight you do into it. It makes your AP's job a lot easier when they go over the paperwork for your licence, and TC wants it that way as well. Your PTR and logbook should match from the day you start your CPL.

[loopa]

Go figure, hauling my Dad along on the 300nm puts my in contravention of some unwritten rule. He's not even a pilot, so who cares...

AS for logging in the PTR, trust me, you want to put every flight you do into it. It makes your AP's job a lot easier when they go over the paperwork for your licence, and TC wants it that way as well. Your PTR and logbook should match from the day you start your CPL.

Interesting, back in the day I never had my students follow this procedure and their licenses were processed just fine. I was always under the impression that your nominal flight school PTR is for proof of PPL, CPL and Instructor rating TRAINING. I didn't know it was such that even your time building towards the 100 pic, and your multi ifr that you may have done had to go into the CPL PTR... You sure?

[Big Pistons Forever]

CAR's should be read literally and as a general statement care should be made about inferring a meaning that is not explicitly stated

So CAR 400.01 says

Quote

“solo flight time”
“solo flight time” means, with respect to the flight time necessary to acquire a permit, licence or rating,
(a) in the case of a pilot, the flight time during which the pilot is the sole flight crew member, and
(b) in the case of a student pilot permit holder, the flight time during which the holder is the sole occupant of an aircraft while under the direction and supervision of the holder of an instructor rating for the appropriate category of aircraft; (temps de vol en solo)

Unquote


Note it does not say "solo flight time" is flight time with no passengers or as the sole occupant of the aircraft in sub para (a) it says in the case of a pilot (ie someone with a pilots license) “solo flight time” is the flight time during which the pilot is the sole flight crew member,

However in para (b) the reg specifies "sole occupant". This is obviously because the student pilot does not have a license. If the intent of para (a) was that "solo flight" was meant to be as the sole occupant of the aircraft it would have said so, but it does not instead it specifies "sole flight crew member"

CAR 400.01 says "Flight crew member" is the defined as

quote

“flight crew member” means a crew member assigned to act as pilot or flight engineer of an aircraft during flight time

quote

I would suggest that if two pilots were flying together, say for the 300 nm X-Country, then one guy/gal could fly to a place 300 + nm away with the 2 intermediate stops and the other person could fly home as long as one was the designated the sole flight crew member on the way out and the other was designated the sole flight crew member for the return leg.

However the intent of the time building for the CPL is for the student to develop flight planning and decision making skills. Flying with an expert mentor pilot as a "passenger" can provide valuable insight and help when dealing with more demanding real world scenarios, but being alone in the plane and having to make those decisions without the comfort blanket of another pilot to help you out is an essential part of being a CPL.

My personal opinion is that you are short changing yourself if you do not build up a substantial part of the CPL PIC time yourself.

[photofly]

Unfortunately the only thing that counts in this scenario is what the licensing officer at the relevant TC office has been told to enforce - what's written in the CARs is essentially entirely irrelevant. If I were the OP and I were in any doubt I would Debbie Fyke or Nitiya, at 4900 Yonge, and ask. Their answer about whether you have to be the sole occupant of the aircraft is the only one that counts.

[loopa]

CAR's should be read literally and as a general statement care should be made about inferring a meaning that is not explicitly stated

So CAR 400.01 says

Quote

“solo flight time”
“solo flight time” means, with respect to the flight time necessary to acquire a permit, licence or rating,
(a) in the case of a pilot, the flight time during which the pilot is the sole flight crew member, and
(b) in the case of a student pilot permit holder, the flight time during which the holder is the sole occupant of an aircraft while under the direction and supervision of the holder of an instructor rating for the appropriate category of aircraft; (temps de vol en solo)

Unquote


Note it does not say "solo flight time" is flight time with no passengers or as the sole occupant of the aircraft in sub para (a) it says in the case of a pilot (ie someone with a pilots license) “solo flight time” is the flight time during which the pilot is the sole flight crew member,

However in para (b) the reg specifies "sole occupant". This is obviously because the student pilot does not have a license. If the intent of para (a) was that "solo flight" was meant to be as the sole occupant of the aircraft it would have said so, but it does not instead it specifies "sole flight crew member"

CAR 400.01 says "Flight crew member" is the defined as

quote

“flight crew member” means a crew member assigned to act as pilot or flight engineer of an aircraft during flight time

quote

I would suggest that if two pilots were flying together, say for the 300 nm X-Country, then one guy/gal could fly to a place 300 + nm away with the 2 intermediate stops and the other person could fly home as long as one was the designated the sole flight crew member on the way out and the other was designated the sole flight crew member for the return leg.

However the intent of the time building for the CPL is for the student to develop flight planning and decision making skills. Flying with an expert mentor pilot as a "passenger" can provide valuable insight and help when dealing with more demanding real world scenarios, but being alone in the plane and having to make those decisions without the comfort blanket of another pilot to help you out is an essential part of being a CPL.

My personal opinion is that you are short changing yourself if you do not build up a substantial part of the CPL PIC time yourself.

+1

[North Shore]

(To drift the thread a little) Why am I getting the sense that many nowadays read the 300NM requirement as being 301NM, and that's it, box checked, on to the next thing? This is one of my personal peeves ( and to an extent, regrets.) The 300 NM xc is the only time in your career as a professional pilot that you'll have an aeroplane at your disposal, with no-one telling you where to take it, and when. Use that freedom to enjoy flying - go to Oshkosh; fly to New York to watch Montreal play the Rangers; go to Canada Day in Ottawa, and so on....

[Rookie50]

(To drift the thread a little) Why am I getting the sense that many nowadays read the 300NM requirement as being 301NM, and that's it, box checked, on to the next thing? This is one of my personal peeves ( and to an extent, regrets.) The 300 NM xc is the only time in your career as a professional pilot that you'll have an aeroplane at your disposal, with no-one telling you where to take it, and when. Use that freedom to enjoy flying - go to Oshkosh; fly to New York to watch Montreal play the Rangers; go to Canada Day in Ottawa, and so on....

+1. CPL's around here fly to St Hubert, outside Montreal, I imagine with a stop in Kingston and maybe Cornwall. Think from the school I did mine...303 NM. No offense, but following the 401, a horribly boring route it's hard to stay awake flying (or driving for that matter)

Go to the states, or North along superior -- wawa or farther.

I don't know about this no pax business, but if you can, take 2 other pilots and go a lot farther, at least to New York -- you will learn lots, and fly down the Hudson corridor -- cool, yes -- or all the way to North Carolina, somewhere on the ocean. I could, so I flew all the way out west -- New Mexico and the Grand Canyon. Learned a ton.