Is the PC-12 a burden for our future?

[FL-510]

It seems like this topic comes up all the time when I talk with buddies.

Very devided opinions! I was wondering what the Avcanada community thought of this issue.
Does PC-12 time slow down or eliminate the possibility to get hired at Jazz, encore, skyreg, georgian?

Thanks for your input

[upintheair_]

It may not be true but I "heard" about a woman who only had single engine time, and lots on the PC12 and was turned away at Encore until she got some multi time. Could just be rumor though, who knows.

[CaptainHaddock]

They have comparable systems to large aircraft, fly high and fast, and when I flew them they had partial glass (probably all glass now). So they are a great learning aircraft (I went from a beaver to one). If you are in the lucky position to choose from job prospects between a a metro or a PC12 take the metro. If you are offered a job flying a PC12 you will learn a lot and gain great experience.

[jpilot77]

I was a captain on a PC-12NG and now I am at one of the above mentioned airlines. I did have quite a bit of Navajo pic time before that though. Flew into some of the busiest airspaces in the world with the PC-12 which was great experience for the airline world.

[iflyforpie]

With NTS/auto feather/and failures almost non-existent..... why is multi a big deal anymore?

The multi columns were from an era of four piston engine bombers and transports where an engine failure was almost an initiation.

[atphat]

Couple from my course had only pc-12 time. One of the 2 majors in Canada. Edit.... This was a little while ago

[Axial Flow]

slow down or eliminate the possibility to get hired at Jazz, encore, skyreg, georgian?

It almost seems as if this is a trolling post....because if you are flying a PC12 you are probably making more and have a better schedule than someone working for the above airlines.

I agree with iflyforpie, unless you are in Asia...engine failures are a non event. But a friend of mine at WJ always tells me that two engines takes twice the pilot....

[CPLMike89]

The pc-12 is an amazing aircraft, the real burden to the future of pilots is the pilots themselves.

[126.7Spam]

I dunno... I fly a King Air...

[springlocked]

because if you are flying a PC12 you are probably making more and have a better schedule than someone working for the above airlines.

== rotflmfaooooo -- really - were the FDT changed for 703

Here is food for thought -- remove the multi-engine out of the equation -- 2 pilots -- one a metro driver and the other a pc12 guy -- who would you hire -- for me a no brainer -- the metro guy and why you ask? -- because he didn't have an autopilot -- and there it is -- the erosion of stick and rudder skills due to automation -

[flythatwing]

because if you are flying a PC12 you are probably making more and have a better schedule than someone working for the above airlines.

== rotflmfaooooo -- really - were the FDT changed for 703

Here is food for thought -- remove the multi-engine out of the equation -- 2 pilots -- one a metro driver and the other a pc12 guy -- who would you hire -- for me a no brainer -- the metro guy and why you ask? -- because he didn't have an autopilot -- and there it is -- the erosion of stick and rudder skills due to automation -

We fly 4 different King Airs at my company, 2 have auto-pilots and the other two are U/S. Does that make me more or less employable because I use auto-pilot at FL250 so I can drink my coffee and read my magazine ?

[flythatwing]

The pc-12 is an amazing aircraft, the real burden to the future of pilots is the pilots themselves.

Those are the facts.

[iamnomaverick]

because if you are flying a PC12 you are probably making more and have a better schedule than someone working for the above airlines.

== rotflmfaooooo -- really - were the FDT changed for 703

Here is food for thought -- remove the multi-engine out of the equation -- 2 pilots -- one a metro driver and the other a pc12 guy -- who would you hire -- for me a no brainer -- the metro guy and why you ask? -- because he didn't have an autopilot -- and there it is -- the erosion of stick and rudder skills due to automation -

That is a misleading statement. I know of few metros with fully functional Autopilot and Glass cockpit.

[FL-510]

Not a trolling post at all. All I wanted was to read different opinions on the subject. Certain points I have never thought of before.
In my mind, PC-12 time would be even more valuable than time in a King Air 90 or 100... On a performance basis alone! I fly in Quebec and king air 100 are stuck at 16 000 feet when max pay load while we are up at FL 280...

I hope this move won't slowdown pc-12 drivers for the next step... After all my time in a 310, I never had an engine failure. So I don't see the point of the golden multi time.

[Redneck_pilot86]

I've got a ton of day and night VFR in a BN2, does that somehow make me more suitable than a guy with an equivalent amount of time ifr in the flight levels in a pc 12? I'd bet I've got better stick and rudders skills, but he/she is certainly going to step into a 737 or similar easier than me.

[Prodriver]

My Buddy went from a PC12NG captain to Porter no problem. They are great planes.

[SuperchargedRS]

What nonsense.


I fly a PC12/45 for work, single pilot IFR, make good money and have a great QOL, I could walk into a airline job tomorrow if I wanted to play that game.

[rigpiggy]

With NTS/auto feather/and failures almost non-existent..... why is multi a big deal anymore?

The multi columns were from an era of four piston engine bombers and transports where an engine failure was almost an initiation.

myself 2 shutdowns, one failure. company had 5 unscheduled removal. the OEI performance is better on the Beech, boeing or whatever has more than one.....

[trey kule]

I agree with iflyforpie, unless you are in Asia

.

Can you explain the part about Asia? With stats, or something to back up such a claim.


New pilots on the first steps of their career ladder sometimes emphasize the wrong things. They ask about time in the logbook.
Single vs. Multi. Different types.

Time in the logbook, and on type will get you an interview...But the decision for airlines to hire is based on other factors such as punctuality, attitude, honesty, ability to work as a team member...

Nothing wrong at all with PC12 time that I know of. And if I was starting out all over again (Big if knowing what I know now),
I would choose a PC12 over a metro every time..but again, it is all about wages, working conditions etc...or at least it should be, but pilots will chase metal...so they can get that low paying, red eye flight job with a major.

As to the lack of flying skills someone mentioned ..Autopilots are in every major airline aircraft as far as I have seen...Not sure what skills you get from motoring along in a straight line holding the control column, but whatever turns your crank.

To the OP.. Take the best job with a company that treats you fairly, does great maintenance, and has good management and pay.
The rest will come in time..no need to chase it.

[flythatwing]

Not a trolling post at all. All I wanted was to read different opinions on the subject. Certain points I have never thought of before.
In my mind, PC-12 time would be even more valuable than time in a King Air 90 or 100... On a performance basis alone! I fly in Quebec and king air 100 are stuck at 16 000 feet when max pay load while we are up at FL 280...

I hope this move won't slowdown pc-12 drivers for the next step... After all my time in a 310, I never had an engine failure. So I don't see the point of the golden multi time.

I fly a King Air 100 at my current job, I take them to the flight levels regularly. As a matter of fact I just flew back form Nunavut @ FL230. 6 Pax + gear + full fuel. not sure why you think they are 'stuck' at 16000 Ft. They probably flying shorter legs and/or have strong headwind.

Don't over think it too much, in this career everyone gets to write their own book/story so take the job that will give you a better lifestyle for YOU.

If you want the airlines then concentrate on what will get you there quicker and give you an edge ( 703 scheduled airline time, multi-turboprop, quick upgrades, survivable wages to start).

If you want to go corporate I would try to start anywhere to build time then find a charter company/aircraft management (fractional ownership) company with a good reputation.

If you want to fly float planes you can start working at one of the many float operators and work your way up from the dock to the otter in 3-4 seasons.

It is all about prospective, everyone will tell you to choose lifestyle over airplanes which is true. BUT make sure it is the life style for YOU whether it is corporate flying, airlines, medevac or good 'ol bush flying. DO WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY!

Good luck!

[springlocked]

OK so I used a wrong analogy -- autopilot to no auto pilot -- sure I'm all for technology but not at the expense of flying skills and that my friends is the way aviation is going - even the airline pilot associations are worried about this -- one can always learn the NG systems with FMS -- glass and all the rest but if you don't have good stick and rudder skills at this point you will never have them -- we just need to look at a couple of major accidents over the last few years -- I'm just sayin' - turn off that autopilot and flight director from time to time and hand fly to 100' feet on an ILS or Rnav+v raw data -- and no I'm not saying bust minimums just stick with the dials once you break out -- hand fly from top of decent or to top of climb -- automation has made us very sloppy and for the newby it can be worse since they never achieved the skill levels in the first place and have become dependent on the automatics -- just because you can grease and aeroplane on and do a t/o does not mean you are an accomplished pilot -- we need to also master the in flight segments as well -- and I know that a PC12 looks like a big aeroplane when you start out but it is still a kitty car in the grand scheme of things --- at the end of a day to advance to the coveted airline jobs the important thing is an ATP and then it's more how you present yourself during the interview and evaluation than what's in your log book --

[Boreas]

I think having little to no multi-time will indeed make it more difficult to get that first airline job.

This is because of the application process. The first stage is completely automated and includes questions such as: How much multi time do you have?, How much multi PIC time do you have?, etc. Once you select 0-250h from the drop down menu, you can rest assured that your application will be, ummm, burdened. Especially since you'll be up against guys that will select +1000h on the exact same question.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's right, but it's how it is.

[Meatservo]

None of this shit is as much different from any other shit as some people would like you to believe. Bush,/Airline, Single-engine/Multi-Engine, Glass cockpit/steam gauges, Piston/Turbine, Jet/Propeller, Floats/Wheels, Heavy/Light, Nosewheel/Tailwheel, VFR/IFR, I've done all of this and it's all the same shit. You're in the air with some controls and a bunch of instruments and trying to get somewhere and land without fucking something up. Operate in accordance with SOPs, practice good CRM/PDM, use your checklists, know your machine and plan ahead. It's all the same. All these "differences" are a red herring. What really matters is whether you're good at flying or not. If you're good, you're good. If you suck, you suck and it's your fault. It's all flying. It's all the same. Once you get enough hours you realize that. Anyone who says different is speaking with his ego.

[AuxBatOn]

meatservo,

If I understand you well, the qualities and skills required to fly a Cessna 152 are the same as the ones required to fly a B787?

[human garbage]

^ Bet there is a whole bunch of pilots fresh out of flight school sure hoping that is the case.