Bush flying training.

[letmedrive]

I got my bush flying training when I got a job. Now I'm a bush pilot.

Easy, and free...

Dude! You are sitting in the right seat of a Piper Navaho in Red Lake, forgive me but you are NOT a "bushpilot"!

Unless I am misinformed....

-How many camps have you flown into?
-Do you know what a tindi ramp is?
-Have you ever "dropped" drums of fuel using only ropes?
-External loads?
-Have you ever been in command of a ski or float equipped aircraft and flown over a site where you know the people trapping/staking a claim and stopped to give them your news paper or to check that all was ok/needed anything even though your company didn't ask you too do it... You made the landing and taxied in as close to camp as you could because doing so is... "The right thing to do in the North and wanted to ensure that your fellow man was OK?"

Sir, with all due respect, you might live and operate out of YXL, but ARE NOT A TRUE "BUSHPILOT"

All the best and fly safe,
TPC

PS: If you ever have the privilege of running into J.S.G at the Lakeview, please tell him I say "hello" and call yourself "humble Navaho right seat pie" and not "a northern bushpilot"!

My post was a bit tongue in cheek towards the fact that any real experience will be learned on the job, not at a "bush flying" course. Which I'm sure you can agree with.

But, I'll bite. While I don't disagree with your post, you're more so talking about float flying/ski flying which is not the only type of bush flying out there. Flying a Navajo in and out of gravel and compact snow strips is in essence, a form of bush flying. I'm happy where I am and the skills I'm learning on a daily basis... even if they're not to your definition of bush flying.

Flying a Navajo as second in command into a 3500 foot grated gravel strip that's published in the CFS and has three GA approaches is not bush flying in the slightest. Air North flys a 737 into gravel and 'compact snow'. Since you haven't been working for a winter I'm guessing you've also never landed on compact snow. A true bush pilot doesn't need to claim that he's a bush pilot... His/her work speaks for itself.

I could go on and on about how your job isn't bush flying...

[upintheair_]

double post

[upintheair_]

deleted

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I have not posted here for along time, however seeing as this thread was started by me I hope you people do not mind my commenting on this subject again?

I feel I need to give my opinion on these comments by this poster.

My post was a bit tongue in cheek towards the fact that any real experience will be learned on the job, not at a "bush flying" course. Which I'm sure you can agree with.

No I do not agree with that line of thinking because bush flying requires skills and decision making that is not taught in the commercial pilot course.

Each individual learns at a different rate than others and each individual learns through different types of exposure and through different sight and thinking processes, that is where very high time teachers with very broad actual experience in a given flying area can show and teach the more demanding aspects of a given kind of flying...such as " Bush Flying " which is actually a catch all description of off airport operations...be it water,snow / ice or unprepared grass, gravel, sand ect.

The course that I am describing here is not a fixed time course, the time required to reach the competency to be considered safe will be determined by the teacher.

Bush flying is much like flying IFR, it is far more beneficial to fly as a FO with experienced Captains than it is to just get a cookie cutter IFR rating from an instructor who may never have done a flight to minimums in true IMC and start flying as PIC attempting to teach yourself.

But, I'll bite. While I don't disagree with your post, you're more so talking about float flying/ski flying which is not the only type of bush flying out there. Flying a Navajo in and out of gravel and compact snow strips is in essence, a form of bush flying. I'm happy where I am and the skills I'm learning on a daily basis... even if they're not to your definition of bush flying.

No, what you are doing is not bush flying, you are learning how to fly the Cessna 150 of commercial cabin type twins that were first put in service in 1967, and I was flying in 1970 in actual bush flying scenarios...off prepared airports.

Please do not take this as personal criticism as I am only attempting to explain why this course is being offered and the value of who is teaching it.

You are doing quite well the way you have started...now just observe, fly and learn and someday you may look back at sixty years of accident free flying in every conceivable machine made by man and have lots of money to live in luxurious retirement...

...like me.

. ..

[TeePeeCreeper]

I agree with what "letmefly" and with what . had to say which is completely in line with my definition of what bush flying is.

As for my comment about a "Tindi ramp"...
Meatservo guessed it right. It is a barrel ramp. I've personally never called it that as everyone I worked with when I started flying in the North called it a "tindi ramp". That moniker stuck with me although I am rather surprised that some of you didn't know what I was making reference to...

At the end of the day, I take my craft very seriously and honestly think that I and others who fly the bush are in a very specialised sector of our industry. I personally take great pride in doing the kind of work that my counter parts did 60 years ago, and other than the advent of a GPS, remains unchanged.

I suppose that hearing a Navaho driver state that they too are a "bushpilot" when I know damn well that it's like comparing apples to oranges... It pisses me off almost as much as my ex wife!

All the best,
TPC

[upintheair_]

deleted

[cplanedriver]

TPC you're missing the best part....we are making more than the whole front end of those spam cans...
The memories of that winter shit ALMOST waxed nostalgic, however I don;t work in the winter anymore
and hermans and frost fighters are just a bad memory...
Fly Safe

[trey kule]

Fair enough. I wasn't trying to steal yours or anyone's thunder.

I'll guess I just fly into places with lots of bushes.

Seems to me you were. I can understand the guys who actually are bush pilots might find it a bit insulting.

My simple test: If you fly airport to airport you are not a bush pilot.

[NunavutPA-12]

If you fly off airport, skis and floats, but NOT FOR HIRE, are you a bush pilot?

I'd like to call myself one, but don't want to be pretentious!

[Chuck Ellsworth]

If you fly off airport, skis and floats, but NOT FOR HIRE, are you a bush pilot?

Absolutely.
.

[upintheair_]

deleted

[letmedrive]

Fair enough. I wasn't trying to steal yours or anyone's thunder.

I'll guess I just fly into places with lots of bushes.

Seems to me you were. I can understand the guys who actually are bush pilots might find it a bit insulting.

My simple test: If you fly airport to airport you are not a bush pilot.

Well I find it insulting that people call what I fly a spam can. So it goes both ways. I may not be a "bush" pilot, but I also don't fly 10 minute legs from paved airport to paved airport in say, Vancouver. Flying in NWO even if it's airport to airport is it's own thing and maybe not "bush" but I enjoy it.

Every job is "its own thing". They all have pros and cons, they all have easier aspects and more difficult aspects. In my opinion, flying IFR out of Vancouver for short hops sounds stressful as hell.

You should focus more on the "I enjoy it" part my friend. Just enjoy it.

[Cat Driver]

Flying IFR is about as easy as flying gets.

[NunavutPA-12]

If you fly off airport, skis and floats, but NOT FOR HIRE, are you a bush pilot?

Absolutely.
.

Thanks .. My hat size just increased!

[Cat Driver]

Nu-PA12,the type of pilot license does not an Aviator make.

And Bush flying is far more demanding than IFR flying.

[upintheair_]

Why not just post as ., Cat Driver?

Enough with the elitism. It gets tiresome.

[Cough Syrup]

It seems he's done lots of "bush" type flying and IFR stuff so not sure it's elitism but maybe just an opinion he has from past experiences.

[Lost Lake]

.. I am curious about you providing a PPC on a single engine float plane.

I'm interested to know what that is. Are you a TC Canada approved DFTE for single engine floats??

[Chuck Ellsworth]

.. I am curious about you providing a PPC on a single engine float plane.

I'm interested to know what that is. Are you a TC Canada approved DFTE for single engine floats??

Good morning Lost Lake.

If you read through this thread you will find I am only involved in an advisory capacity, the course is being offered by Randy Hanna under his Charter / flight school operating certificate ...Pacific Seaplanes..

In that I do not actually give flight instruction anymore it would be best if you ask Randy about the services he offers.

. E.

[Lost Lake]

OK .. I really don't need a bush course. But if anyone in Ontario wants training, I would be more than happy to train. I have limited BC experience but I do have 6,000 hr of bush experience.

Cheers, Heard from Doc lately

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Why not just post as ., Cat Driver?

Sorry for posting under Cat Driver it was inadvertent as I was using one of my several computers that was logged in under Cat Driver from about six months ago and I had clicked post before I noticed.

Enough with the elitism. It gets tiresome.

You have me perplexed, how is posting under Cat Driver elitist?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

OK .. I really don't need a bush course. But if anyone in Ontario wants training, I would be more than happy to train. I have limited BC experience but I do have 6,000 hr of bush experience.

You should get to know Randy and Iflyforpie.

They are the guys I am involved with to set up a new type of pilot training, training done under a common structure and given by experienced working pilots.

There is a real opportunity to make a decent living in that business if some of you guys get together and sort of make it a fractional set up business.

Advanced flight training really paid off for me and I can now live the rest of my life in comfort.

Cheers, Heard from Doc lately

No I have not been posting on Avcanada for over six months and I have not heard from him either.

[Meatservo]

There is a real opportunity to make a decent living in that business if some of you guys get together and sort of make it a fractional set up business.

Advanced flight training really paid off for me and I can now live the rest of my life in comfort.

That's pretty interesting... it makes me wonder if I have anything to offer. I have a fair whack of time as a "bush" pilot... I've even done quite a bit of training and spent some time in large jet aircraft, too. I wonder if there's a retirement gig in this idea somehow. Never thought of it. My present employer thinks I am full of shit... but I've lasted this long and never bent anything!

[Cat Driver]

Whoops...

......posted under the wrong name again....

...don't want to appear elitist.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

The idea Meatservo is for high time pilots with a history of safe flying in a given field of aviation to get together and form an association of pilots who offer advanced flight training / pilot mentoring to low time pilots wishing to upgrade their skills to make them more attractive to a potential employer by producing a certificate of competency signed by a teacher in this group.

Most employers know how to separate fact from B.S.