Weekend Annuals.

[torquey401]

I am not an AME.

If the AME is signing for an annual inspection, in my opinion one of two possible meanings shoudl be easily decernable by any pilot reading the log entry:

I guess that is what you think should be happening, however the regs don't require that level of baby sitting for the pilots/owners that shouldn't really own an aircraft (not you). Rookie 50 has got it right. Man-up or buy a boat.

As an AME, I can't be responsible for being the pseudo PRM for every irresponsible pilot/owner who hires me to fix something or do some level of inspection. And the law does not require that for very obvious reasons.

What AME would be stupid enough to sign a maintenance release if signing meant that you were now responsible for everything that you didn't do, on an aircraft you are not the owner of ... well I guess there are some on here who are. Thank God the law is not like that because the courts would soon enough eliminate the profession.

AME's, much like pilots, often have pressure put on them. "It's not that bad!", "I'll get it done next time, I promise!", and of course my favourite "It flew in, it will fly out!". Finding a balance between being "a good guy" and following the regs I think is a bit of a challenge.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... -4177.html I wonder what the circumstances were behind getting fined 8 years after the fact!

[PilotDAR]

CrazyAv makes a good point. I presuppose that the owner washing the plane for the benefit would note any smoking rivets or chafing, and point them out to the AME, though perhaps that is optimistic thinking on my part in some cases.

Finding a balance between being "a good guy" and following the regs I think is a bit of a challenge.

As it should be for pilots, it should be for AMEs too, following the regs is being a good [guy].... Flights should be safely conducted, maintenance should be safely conducted.

[Hornblower]

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... -4177.html I wonder what the circumstances were behind getting fined 8 years after the fact!

Well, You are assuming that he was fined more than a year after the offence, but in fact that is not possible (although I've seen TC break the law more than once) because Section 26 of the Aeronautics Act limits the liability for a TC fine (AMP) or summary conviction proceeding to 12 months after the offence.

In this case I imagine that the proceeding went slowly and that the offender used more than one level of review, i.e. TATC review, TATC appeal, federal court etc.. These processes can take a long time; ask Andy.

[LousyFisherman]

I do $50/hr
I do you watch $75/hr
I do you help $150/hr

Thank you. You will never touch any plane I own. I like my plane. I don't like know-it-alls.

LF

[crazyaviator]

I once had 6 co-owners of a small plane "help me" on an annual !Just imagine the $$$ they saved There is a lot of talk on here about pilots being professionals, not cutting corners, not taking bonds, no ramping,,, Why not treat the AME s as professionals too? Does canadian tire invite car owners in the shop to "assist" in the work? washing the A/C , r/r panels etc, I get it but NOT doing my job for my income !!!

[PilotDAR]

I wash my car before I take it to the maintainer as a courtesy, just the same as I wash myself before going to the doctor. It's the maintainers job to repair, not clean. I will not disrespect the maintainer by expecting them to clean something I should clean before they receive it. When I take my clean car for maintenance, I do not expect to pay any less for the maintenance, but I hope that the maintainer will feel respected, and afford me that respect back in effective maintenance for me.

But, I agree, the maintainer has every right to request, and then expect to not have "indicators" washed off during "courtesy cleaning" before delivery, if they would like to see the unwashed aircraft as a part of their initial inspection. The maintainer should make that clear to the owner before hand, and everyone will be happy!

[Rookie50]

I do $50/hr
I do you watch $75/hr
I do you help $150/hr

Thank you. You will never touch any plane I own. I like my plane. I don't like know-it-alls.

LF

+ 1. I have a great AME who welcomes my interest and engagement. It's a team effort and I respect his role in doing the work as a professional, and don't get in the way. I would not be inclined to use an AME who locked the hangar door and didn't communicate effectively what was found and the condition of the aircraft as an annual proceeds.

[DonutHole]

LF and Rookie,

Good, to be quite honest, you guys are too 'small potatoes' for me anyways, and also, you're potatoes.

I worked my ass off to get out of the grind of dealing with owner assisted annuals.

I log them, Ive done 126 bugsmasher annuals and 67 were owner assists.

I've never had a customer complain about my attitude or ability.

But lets face it, they must be stupid because you two clever geniuses have figured out that I know everything based on a message that references nothing about what I know. Quite capable literary savants you lot are.

no.

Whats really going on here is you're pissed that I would charge you for taking up more of my time and energy.
If you want to know a lot about an airplane there are a few ways to go. You can go to school and gain a license like I did, you can read a bunch of books (which I also did) or you can ask somebody, but expertise is not free, nor should it be. I expect to be fairly compensated for the time I spend doing a job, and if that means I charge you for a debrief, or you want to get dirty and help, well, that has to be taken into account.

If Im going to do a job, and talk you through it that's going to be extra.

Owner assisted annuals, no matter what you like to think as the owner, are kinda a pain in the ass. Sure your ame might humor you but I know in his mind he just wants to be left alone to do a job. If he wants your help he will ask.

Nope, no worries about having me work on your aircraft, i'd qualify you gents in two minutes of conversation and give you directions to the sandbox in which you can pound.

Im so, so glad I have one customer, and he's awesome. I can't imagine ever, ever going back to private maintenance, which is sad. I used to aspire to keep GA cheap and available to guys like you, but the sad fact is, entitled guys like you are what makes that (the bottom end) industry not worthwhile to pursue.

And you're seeing it all over the country. The supply of guys who can work a pen who work on that private b.s. is pretty much non-existent. Why do you think that is? 1. there's no money, 2. its shitty work, 3. customers

owners make up 2/3 of the problem

[Rookie50]

DH,

Thanks for reading us your extensive resume and tales of hardship with private airplanes.

We feel for your former suffering --

[crazyaviator]

I can agree 100% with DonutHole, I've been there-done that Most A/C owners cant do a proper AD search and are not interested anyways. Many owners would pay an AME $2.00/Hr. and watch him line up at the food bank for his children if they thought they could get away with it!
I also have had excellent rapport and thorough communications with the owners of A/C i have provided maintenance for in the past. 2 things i dislike,1) cheap owners and arrogant egotistical pilots who always look down at AME s

[digits_]

Whats really going on here is you're pissed that I would charge you for taking up more of my time and energy.
If you want to know a lot about an airplane there are a few ways to go. You can go to school and gain a license like I did, you can read a bunch of books (which I also did) or you can ask somebody, but expertise is not free, nor should it be. I expect to be fairly compensated for the time I spend doing a job, and if that means I charge you for a debrief, or you want to get dirty and help, well, that has to be taken into account.

If Im going to do a job, and talk you through it that's going to be extra.

Your extra revenue should come from the fact that it takes you longer to execute and talk about a task than to just do the task. So your billable hours will go up. It doesn't justify why your hourly rate should go up.

[DonutHole]

Whats really going on here is you're pissed that I would charge you for taking up more of my time and energy.
If you want to know a lot about an airplane there are a few ways to go. You can go to school and gain a license like I did, you can read a bunch of books (which I also did) or you can ask somebody, but expertise is not free, nor should it be. I expect to be fairly compensated for the time I spend doing a job, and if that means I charge you for a debrief, or you want to get dirty and help, well, that has to be taken into account.

If Im going to do a job, and talk you through it that's going to be extra.

Your extra revenue should come from the fact that it takes you longer to execute and talk about a task than to just do the task. So your billable hours will go up. It doesn't justify why your hourly rate should go up.

If that's what is going on I'm doing two separate jobs. One as a mechanic and another as a consultant. Want to use more of my skillset you can pay more for it.

[photofly]

This thread is the best advertisement for all the AME's that aren't posting in it that I have ever seen.

[DonutHole]

They're not chiming in because they want nothing to do with pita customers. I know, I asked every one of them

[Rookie50]

Based on my experience so far, I have great respect for my AME. He is thorough while remaining practical, communicates well, and bills fairly. I am happy to pay for all of his time, both working on my plane, and briefing me on the work. A true professional, IMO.

Also based on experience to date, there are comments here I respect considerably less.

Like LF, I would not let some touch my plane for free.

Attitude displayed is a direct reflection of level of professionalism to be expected.

It's a small, small community, as well.

[Hornblower]

There certainly are some interesting people working as AMEs. Many seem rather arrogant at first, but don’t confuse their apparent arrogance with insecurity. It seems to come out a little here, where some appear to be worried that they will lose work or employment because a private owner learns something about his aircraft.

In any case I have worked on and off on private aircraft since forever; before I was even an AME apprentice. Some owners are hard to deal with, many aren’t. Some owners are quite skilled and knowledgeable. I have at least two clients that I have no problem with them doing the whole annual inspection (along with other maintenance) that I will sign a maintenance release for. I trust them at least as much as any senior apprentice that I would also supervise and sign maintenance releases for. I have even consulted for guidance some owners who have specialized knowledge or skills; (real) engineers mostly. Some are not as skilled, but all are quite intelligent and capable of doing some maintenance with varying levels of supervision.

Most of these private aircraft are quite simple and basic machines, they are not difficult to understand or maintain … definitely not the space shuttle. A strong case can be made for letting the owners do and certify their own maintenance without making them bastardize the associated dataplates.

There are also private owners not interested in doing maintenance or the research required for AD compliance. They are happy just to have others do it, and pay for the service. Some of those guys are not that easy to work for either by the way. Either way works for me.

[Strega]

And you're seeing it all over the country. The supply of engineers to work on that private b.s. is pretty much non-existant. Why do you think that is? 1. there's no money, 2. its shitty work, 3. customers

Actually you mean "aircraft maintenance engineers"

Please do not refer to yourself as simply an "engineer" If you want to be an Engineer, go to school and be an EIT to become one.... Same thing your are complaining about..

Thx

S

[DonutHole]

Lol. OK.

Whatever you say

*pats strega on head*

[LousyFisherman]

I trust them at least as much as any senior apprentice that I would also supervise and sign maintenance releases for.

Exactly, I'm a real good parts washer, boss! I don't think I'm senior apprentice level though.
Damned if I'm going to pay for the privilege of washing parts, however. I'm not a CPL after all

Our AME goes out of his way to keep our costs down, and we go out of our way to help him achieve that.

And yes I do bargain at a restaurant if the meal is not up to snuff. And yes my car mechanic has no problem with me coming into the shop and acting as his apprentice. So don't try to tell me how unique the behaviour of aircraft owners is.

YMMV
LF

[GyvAir]

And yes I do bargain at a restaurant if the meal is not up to snuff. And yes my car mechanic has no problem with me coming into the shop and acting as his apprentice. So don't try to tell me how unique the behaviour of aircraft owners is.

Did you happen to notice that both examples you gave to support your argument that the behavior of aircraft owners is not unique, are behaviors being exhibited specifically by an aircraft owner – yourself, in fact?

[DonutHole]

Based on my experience so far, I have great respect for my AME. He is thorough while remaining practical, communicates well, and bills fairly. I am happy to pay for all of his time, both working on my plane, and briefing me on the work. A true professional, IMO.

Also based on experience to date, there are comments here I respect considerably less.

Like LF, I would not let some touch my plane for free.

Attitude displayed is a direct reflection of level of professionalism to be expected.

It's a small, small community, as well.

Ain't that the truth. I know a few guys who have to fly out of province to get their gear worked on because their local ames won't touch their stuff any longer.

[Rookie50]

Based on my experience so far, I have great respect for my AME. He is thorough while remaining practical, communicates well, and bills fairly. I am happy to pay for all of his time, both working on my plane, and briefing me on the work. A true professional, IMO.

Also based on experience to date, there are comments here I respect considerably less.

Like LF, I would not let some touch my plane for free.

Attitude displayed is a direct reflection of level of professionalism to be expected.

It's a small, small community, as well.

Ain't that the truth. I know a few guys who have to fly out of province to get their gear worked on because their local ames won't touch their stuff any longer.

Wow. They must have more business than they can handle. Must be nice.

Here's a free tip DH, no charge, for your AME friends, and for pilots and others too:

There's a recession coming, a really big one, and so that status of swimming in business, will likely drastically change. As I said as an owner I endorse treating AME's fairly and with respect, but for those on the other side providing the service, times will get very lean. Count on it. I'd recommend being nice, too, to continue eating.

[DonutHole]

Based on my experience so far, I have great respect for my AME. He is thorough while remaining practical, communicates well, and bills fairly. I am happy to pay for all of his time, both working on my plane, and briefing me on the work. A true professional, IMO.

Also based on experience to date, there are comments here I respect considerably less.

Like LF, I would not let some touch my plane for free.

Attitude displayed is a direct reflection of level of professionalism to be expected.

It's a small, small community, as well.

Ain't that the truth. I know a few guys who have to fly out of province to get their gear worked on because their local ames won't touch their stuff any longer.

Wow. They must have more business than they can handle. Must be nice.

Here's a free tip DH, no charge, for your AME friends, and for pilots and others too:

There's a recession coming, a really big one, and so that status of swimming in business, will likely drastically change. As I said as an owner I endorse treating AME's fairly and with respect, but for those on the other side providing the service, times will get very lean. Count on it. I'd recommend being nice, too, to continue eating.

Nice pro tip. I got the whole "be prepared" lesson in scouts as a young boy. But thanks

[Hornblower]

Actually you mean "aircraft maintenance engineers"

Please do not refer to yourself as simply an "engineer"

Thx

S

Strega,
This is a sensless argument. You keep making this point and I'm not sure why. Most every AME knows he is not an engineer of any type. I totally understand that what I am is an aircraft mechanic or technician. However the use of the word you wish banned from the aircraft maintenance lexicon is not one of our choosing. Please contact TC and have them change the moniker, and we will stop calling ourselves something that we are not. We all recognize and understand the difference, and defer to the high intelligence level and knowledge of real engineers; although I do cuss them out on a regular basis — usually when I am bleeding.

The only AMEs that are likely to argue with your position are the same ones here that believe they are appointed to save the world, and who think they are the defacto PRMs for every aircraft that they change a mag on, or even walk by on the ramp; so stop arguing with them already. I'm starting to think you are as insecure as those few AMEs that disagree with you.

(sorry for the thread drift, but Strega started it ... now back to arguing over annual inspections)

[Strega]

Hornblower,

Thanks for your comments, it it clear you're intelligent, unfortunately as you mention, there are many AMEs that do simply refer to themselves as "engineers" .. pisses me off..


Sorry for the thread drift.