Relax if WS has the best OTP for North America with 100+ narrow bodies they'll figure out the 1 wide body. The 767 is a learning experiance you get it right every time then worry about speed later, that's why they're on red eyes. No ones in a hurry
leftoftrack wrote:Relax if WS has the best OTP for North America with 100+ narrow bodies they'll figure out the 1 wide body. The 767 is a learning experiance you get it right every time then worry about speed later, that's why they're on red eyes. No ones in a hurry
Apparently a wet lease of an Omni Air B767 or two is in WestJet's future for a few weeks as the B767 won't be ETOPS certified in time to start the Alberta-Hawaii runs this winter.
Not sure who is disclosing company memos when it is being posted all over at least one public Facebook page...I certainly don't have access to any Company memos...I'm sure the Omni Air wet lease will take care of your guests.
amraam wrote:Not sure who is disclosing company memos when it is being posted all over at least one public Facebook page...I certainly don't have access to any Company memos...I'm sure the Omni Air wet lease will take care of your guests.
amraam
They have operated for WS before, it's safe to assume they would do it again. The ETOPS will come the guests will get to their destination. What's the problem?
plhought wrote:...also one of few non-FADEC 767's in the world....
Meh, it's a great airplane to start widebody work with though. I'm sure lots of people were scratching their heads when WJ was rockin' ol' -200's around when Air Canader was flying around nice new 319s.
Re non Fadec,
Canadian Airlines first four 767's - now Air Canada fin numbers 681 thru 684 are non Fadec (CF6-80C2B6). These are called PMC or Power Management Control engines. These frames were built in 1988, the next aircraft delivered to Canadian (Air Canada) arrived in 1989 and was the first 767 to have Fadec engines (CF6-80C2B6F). Also as previously mentioned the Qantas aircraft are light weight models so they may be fitted with lower thrust B2 or B4 engines. I find it strange that the first Qantas aircraft was built 2 years after the first Fadec powered aircraft, and was still powered with PMC engines. Even though the engines have similar internal hardware, the external components are totally different, and thus the engines are non interchangeable. Those first 4 PMC frames at Canadian were the oddballs, and I recall a few conversations many years ago about dumping them for the improved Fadec powered models. From the fact PMC powered aircraft are older and some are heading to desert, I would have to surmise that WestJet will not add to the fleet due to most of the remaining aircraft out there would be Fadec powered, and unfortunately with non interchangeable engines. My thought is the 767 will only be with WestJet for a few years before upgrading to a newer fleet.
My understanding with the Qantas non-FADEC is a similar story to Canadian/PWA...except went the other way. Early buyer of 767s and opted for the non-FADEC. By the time the first non-FADEC airplanes were in Aus they decided against operating a mixed fleet and just stuck with non-FADEC for the rest of their orders.
leftoftrack wrote:
They have operated for WS before, it's safe to assume they would do it again. The ETOPS will come the guests will get to their destination. What's the problem?
The problem is that the people in charge of the 767 program have failed to achieve readiness in the timeline given to them. While the marketing department seems to have no trouble boasting about Westjet entering the overseas market every week, the fact is the airline isn't walking the walk. Air Canada is adding 10-12 widebodies a year and entering a new market seemingly every month, by next summer AC will have started service to Brisbane, Prague, Budapest, Berlin, Lyon, and Edinburgh in addition to Dubai and Delhi which started this month. As for Westjet…Gatwick…more seats to London…not exactly a gamechanger. Encore isn't exactly living up to its internally generated fanfare either, half the flying the Q's are doing is old 737 routes, again AC Express is adding capacity and city pairings faster than Encore. Transat and Air Canada have upped their competitiveness and the attitude at Westjet seems to be, "meh, we'll figure it out sooner or later. Hey! Why isn't our stock price going up anymore?"
Do you expect WestJet to just automatically match ACs aircraft, route changes and expansion? You're a nut.
I think it is clear that we are eating ACs lunch and that will continue for quite sometime. As for AT and SW they will continue to undercut each other and will never have the route structure to keep up with WJ or AC for that matter.
If you want a piece of advice "TheStig" I wouldn't sell your shares. In fact go work your ass off and buy some more.
While I'm sure the "Eating AC's lunch" line gets thrown around lots during culture training, and it was once true, it's in fact clear that is no longer the case, and hasn't been for the last 3 years.
I've come to expect westjetters coming to the defence of their employer, but I find the disdain directed at me interesting because you thought i was an employee. Says a lot about the widening gap between sides in the pilot group.
brooks wrote:Do you expect WestJet to just automatically match ACs aircraft, route changes and expansion? You're a nut.
I think it is clear that we are eating ACs lunch and that will continue for quite sometime. As for AT and SW they will continue to undercut each other and will never have the route structure to keep up with WJ or AC for that matter.
If you want a piece of advice "TheStig" I wouldn't sell your shares. In fact go work your ass off and buy some more.
It's no secret I'm a big WestJet booster but you're delusional if you think WestJet is "eating ACs lunch". That was the case at one time but it sure isn't anymore, just the opposite in fact and you better figure it out.
brooks wrote:
I think it is clear that we are eating ACs lunch and that will continue for quite sometime.
If you want a piece of advice "TheStig" I wouldn't sell your shares. In fact go work your ass off and buy some more.
Lunchtime in YYC? Well, the analyst community certainly do not see it that way. Having said that, WJ shares are probably a good buy at current price (down almost 50% from 52 week high).
Put the koolaid down and just do your job. There is lots of room in the industry for everybody to thrive.
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Last edited by rudder on Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
We start Calgary-Nanaimo. AC starts Calgary-Nanaimo.
We start Calgary-Terrace.
We start Winnipeg-Gatwick (this spring)
The list goes on...
Maybe the term "eating ACs lunch" is a little outdated but I think that is still the case on many of our routes that we both serve. A good example is every single person I have talked to about their experience with Rouge has NOTHING good to say about it. Nothing..
A traveler flying YYC to YYJ for example buys a ticket on AC for $10 less (what a deal!) then gets on the plane and finds out its a Q400. Back in the 90's some still remember that this was served with a BAC146 by AirBC. The traveller then deeply regrets their decision and next time books WJ and fly's on B737. Customer/Guest is happy. I am not trying to hand out glasses of KoolAid but you guys are making out like we are making some bad choices and I would have to disagree. We do pretty good considering we only fly 3 types of aircraft, more so if you consider the variants of 737's.
Now with keeping on the thread topic, the 2nd 767 has arrived at the campus.
A traveler flying YYC to YYJ for example buys a ticket on AC for $10 less (what a deal!) then gets on the plane and finds out its a Q400. Back in the 90's some still remember that this was served with a BAC146 by AirBC. The traveller then deeply regrets their decision and next time books WJ and fly's on B737. Customer/Guest is happy. I am not trying to hand out glasses of KoolAid but you guys are making out like we are making some bad choices and I would have to disagree. We do pretty good considering we only fly 3 types of aircraft, more so if you consider the variants of 737's.
You do understand why WJ started Encore right? Because it's more viable to fly a Q400 to YYJ, YLW, YKA etc. WJ isn't flying the 37 to YYJ because they want to attract customer...Provide them with best customer experience... As Encore grows you'll see all the same routes that AC's regional serves be transferred from the 37 to the Q.
DH772
YYC-YYJ served by a dash8. That will never happen, and about as likely as YYC-YVR being served by Dash8. Encore was started to grow the company. Some routes will get dash service but bases such as YLW and YQQ will always need a 737 at peak periods.
Well you're dillusional then if you think YYJ won't be operated by a Q400 sooner than later. Comparing YYJ to YVR route? Really? Sigh....
And yes congrats on making a point that certain destinations are served by a bigger aircraft during peak season. Pretty sure every other airline in the world does that too.
Regional and widebody is a first in WJ history. However, they are not reinventing the wheel here. They will have similar route structure with similar AC sizes serving particular markets.
Not too bad for a first of."
