Turkey shoots down Russian fighter...

[TeePeeCreeper]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/25/wo ... google.ca/

This story is going to be interesting to watch unfold!

[CpnCrunch]

It's good that someone finally has the balls to stand up to Russia. Just a pity their pilots had to die. The rebels on the ground are obviously too dumb to realise they have more to gain by keeping the pilots alive than killing them.

[rigpiggy]

FWIW Russia says it was shot at 1 km from the border and crashed 4km inside syria. Ain't Physics a bitch

[PilotDAR]

Hmmm, a bit of a twist for US Thanksgiving....

[CpnCrunch]

FWIW Russia says it was shot at 1 km from the border and crashed 4km inside syria. Ain't Physics a bitch

Yep, the missile was fired while it was over Turkish territory, but didn't hit it until it had left Turkish airspace:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34912581

Russia has published an alternative track for the plane showing it was nowhere near Turkish airspace. However it seems a little unlikely that Turkey would do something that dumb with NATO permission. Russia doesn't exactly have a good record of accurate reporting.

[AirMail]

The Russians crossed less than 2 mile of airspace. Yet Turkey claims 5 mins? Pretty sure it wasn't an airship the Russians were flying. Did Russia provoke, sure, perhaps not intentional given the look at the rest of the flight path. Was the Turkey shooting justified? Absolutely not! The rebels killing the pilots makes them everyday thugs, glad our country is supporting thugs and a trigger happy nation

[CpnCrunch]

The Russians crossed less than 2 mile of airspace. Yet Turkey claims 5 mins? Pretty sure it wasn't an airship the Russians were flying. Did Russia provoke, sure, perhaps not intentional given the look at the rest of the flight path. Was the Turkey shooting justified? Absolutely not! The rebels killing the pilots makes them everyday thugs, glad our country is supporting thugs and a trigger happy nation

No, they said 17 seconds. The 5 minutes you are referring to is how long they were given warnings *before* entering Turkish airspace.

Russia are the real thugs here, believing they can invade other countries, work with rebels who then shoot down airliners full of passengers, and lie about it all. It might be a small incursion, but Turkey has the right to defend their airspace, and their people. (Part of the reason for them shooting down the plane is that Russia was bombing Turkman civilians in Syria, rather than or as well as ISIS).

The Turkmen shooting the pilot is unfortunate and dumb, although if someone is bombing your people you'd probably do the same. The Turkmen are one of the few rebel groups (along with Kurds) who we should definitely be helping rather than bombing.

[AirMail]

No, they said 17 seconds. The 5 minutes you are referring to is how long they were given warnings *before* entering Turkish airspace.

Sorry read another article that clarified that. Warnings given 8km from their airspace. So ok 10km total. Lets say it wasn't even 5 mins, just 3. That's 321kph or 178kts. Again, the math doesn't add up now does it. Even a 20km "buffer" zone which we all know would not apply here, and at 3 mins, that's 350kts, at around FL200. More possible, but again we know that the warnings didn't occur 20km out.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/turkey-rus ... -1.3334096

Sure there's a whole other debate of Russia's other doings, but this topic here is about the SU shot down. Just cause you don't like someone for what they did doesn't mean you have to justify the murder upon them. Or have we still not evolved yet to take the higher moral road?

[CpnCrunch]

Warnings given 8km from their airspace. So ok 10km total. Lets say it wasn't even 5 mins, just 3. That's 321kph or 178kts. Again, the math doesn't add up now does it. Even a 20km "buffer" zone which we all know would not apply here, and at 3 mins, that's 350kts, at around FL200. More possible, but again we know that the warnings didn't occur 20km out.

Not sure what you're trying to say here. You're pulling numbers out of your ass, and then saying they don't make sense.

Just cause you don't like someone for what they did doesn't mean you have to justify the murder upon them. Or have we still not evolved yet to take the higher moral road?

Turkey didn't murder them, the rebels did, and if you read my first post you'll see I don't condone that.

I don't like war, but sometimes you have to have to fight. The alternative is letting Hitler or ISIS run the world.

[ant_321]

"In Soviet Russia, Turkey shoots you!" Too soon?

[crazyaviator]

Russia are the real thugs here, believing they can invade other countries, work with rebels who then shoot down airliners full of passengers, and lie about it all. It might be a small incursion, but Turkey has the right to defend their airspace, and their people

Forgotten in the MSN Hyperbole are the Facts:

The USA is fighting a war against assad with the help of Turkey, Saudi Arabia and others.
Moderate "rebels" are supplied by the USA and ISIS is basically existing because of American Hedgemonic interests in the Middle East.
Turkey is aiding and protecting and profiting off of ISIS, Turkey is a NATO country, so it has approval to do so. The American war monglols in power are licking their lips over the "ISIS" shootdown and Turkeys " SU warning" Like Israel, America wants to have a proxy war instead of direct contact and direct blame.
America does NOT want to eraticate their moderate-cum-radical rebel friends and accomplishes
Russia was not the agressor in the Ukraine America was.
Russia is not the agressor in Syria America is.
The USA started an illegal war against a sovereign country and Russia is protecting its interests and borders.
Islam is a hate religion and America and other nations illegally turned up the heat enough to make them boil.

[pelmet]

Russia has published an alternative track for the plane showing it was nowhere near Turkish airspace.

And the Russians have no troops in Ukraine and none of their athletes is involved in state sponsored doping. And they didn't shoot down a 747.

[TeePeeCreeper]

Russia was not the agressor in the Ukraine America was.
Russia is not the agressor in Syria America is.
The USA started an illegal war against a sovereign country and Russia is protecting its interests and borders.
Islam is a hate religion and America and other nations illegally turned up the heat enough to make them boil.

So America fought a proxy war by not intervening in Russia's annexation of Crimia Ukraine and are somehow responsible for the Russian's occupation? *cue Islamic hatred and benevolence of facts*

-Are you kidding? If not please pass whatever you are drinking this way!

Back on topic...

Was it an air to air missle from a Turkish F-16 or something or someone else that downed the Russian fighter?

TPC

[DanWEC]

So what does Russia have to gain by underhandedly (read, intentionally?) creating a rationale for conflict, ostensibly, with Turkey?
Or is it just the obvious, which I believe is that Russia is supporting Asaad. What a mess.

[North Shore]

So what does Russia have to gain by underhandedly (read, intentionally?) creating a rationale for conflict, ostensibly, with Turkey?
Or is it just the obvious, which I believe is that Russia is supporting Asaad. What a mess.

Who knows, Dan? But I'm sure that Crazy will be along soon with his supply of tinfoil to tell us MSM-fed sheeple what is actually going on...

[AirMail]

Not sure what you're trying to say here. You're pulling numbers out of your ass, and then saying they don't make sense.

I'm making the point that a 5min warning is BS. Even at different distances and time. I understand if you thought I was pulling numbers out of my ass as simple math might not be your strong suit.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

So what does Russia have to gain by underhandedly (read, intentionally?) creating a rationale for conflict, ostensibly, with Turkey?
Or is it just the obvious, which I believe is that Russia is supporting Asaad. What a mess.

Perhaps Russia thinks that the area will be more stable with a secular Assad-like dictator in power than having the country in total anarchy, divided among 10 war lords, à la Somalia, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, who will all be of different shades of radical Islam, some of which we like to call "moderates" to fool ourselves (like Saudi salafite "moderates" for example)

May I remind you that when a "'moderate'" Islamist won the legal and legitimate elections in Egypt, following our "Arab Spring" we found him to be too hostile to Israel and too cozy with the Palestinians so we plotted with the Egyptian military to overthrow him and replace him with the current military dictatorship, which we now applaud as the legitimate government (that we are selling million of dollars of high tech weapons to)

Does anyone really think that when groups of "moderate" Islamists, like the ones that murdered that Russian crewmember while he was descending under his parachute, all the while screaming "Allah Akbar", will overthrow the Assad regime to introduce an Israel-friendly secular and democratic regime to Syria ?

Perhaps, unlike many leaders in the West, the Russians think ahead....... and more than that, perhaps the Russians, unlike many western counties, don't act as proxys to fight Israel's wars for them......

[bizjets101]

For anyone interested in the actual crew of the aircraft - the pilot was killed while parachuting - hit by bullets - however the navigator was rescued and is uninjured - currently at a Russian airbase inside Syria.

He has stated they were given no warnings - and were just hit by a missile - he said he was in control of the flight path - and at no time did they stray into Turkish airspace - and had they received a warning they would have taken evasive action - aircraft was at 6000 meters in straight and level flight when hit.

Syrian military rescued him.

[Moose47]

G'day

I wish the media would stop calling the aircraft a fighter. It is an all-weather long range strike aircraft or more simply a bomber. This aircraft is Russia's answer to the F-111. There is only one pilot not two as they keep chirping about. The other crewman is the weapons systems operator.

It is time to seriously look at dumping Turkey as a N.A.T.O. member. They can not be trusted.

Cheers...Chris

[crazyaviator]

don't act as proxys to fight Israel's wars for them

Anti-semetic talk like that could get you black listed lol I mean, the truth will get you banned,,,,dont want to see you leave

Who knows, Dan? But I'm sure that Crazy will be along soon with his supply of tinfoil to tell us MSM-fed sheeple what is actually going on...

Russia has already openly stated that they support Assad, They also mentioned that they do NOT want a war with Turkey! Its real easy,,, America and its "allies" are toppling many countries from inside ( Ukraine, libya, egypt, Iraq, Iran soon, Syria etc) A COVERT act of war on many sovereign nations. Russia is not interested in losing stragetic Ukraine and strategic Syria