Orca RTO/Overrun CAT4

[Gear Jerker]

Yesterday afternoon. Cador isn't up yet. Through the rumour mill, engine failure at rotation, managed to get it stopped only 10 feet or so past the end of the runway. 2 burst tires. All second hand, but sounds like a hell of a job by the crew!

[boeingboy]

[switchflicker]

What kind of airplane?

[av8ts]

If it was at rotation then it was past v1 which means they should have gone flying meaning not such a good job. Unless it was a single engine aircraft of course

[sportingrifle]

A loaded Navajo with the gear still down is a pretty marginal airplane on 1 engine and a successful outcome may be far from assured. Will wait to hear more but at the end of the day, everyone is ok and only 2 tires need to be replaced....a pretty good outcome.

[Gear Jerker]

It amazes me what some people will post. Second hand info on a rejected takeoff? Who the hell cares?

edited out, please keep it civil
We're talking about a short sloped strip with high trees on each end, and the aircraft had rotated. Don't know how they were loaded but sounds like it could have been much worse.

Here's the CADOR:

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/c ... d2015P2230

[GARRETT]

It's easy to sit behind your computer and critique a crew that had a sh**ty situation presented to them. The fact nobody was killed and the plane is usable means STFU with your criticism. I'm sure if it was you involved, you wouldn't want the AvCanada crowd armchair quarterbacking a decision you has a split second to make.
Good job guys! I hope you went down to French Creek Marina Pub for a pint after that one.

[human garbage]

Lol at taxiing from out of the grass to the hanger with two destroyed and flat mains...

[Redneck_pilot86]

working CADOR

[boeingboy]

Sounds more like all they were trying to do is save some money and get a little more life out of the tires.

The CADOR says nothing about an engine failure - in fact it says "component failure - non powerplant".

[Maynard]

.

[Maynard]

No wehere does it say there was an engine failure, or that the problem happened at rotation, or that it happened after V1.... (Do navajos even have a V1 or jsut a rotation speed...) Seems like the OP info is different from the CADORs. Also overran 300'....not 10'......

[Cliff Jumper]

Aircraft had taxied from the overrun area to a private hanger area on the airport. Both main tires were observed to be badly damaged and completely flat.

sounds like a hell of a job by the crew!

Agreed.

[human garbage]

...Do navajos even have a V1 or just a rotation speed...

Just Vr. Never seen any reference to V1 in the POH (no charts to calculate it anyhow). I've flown them for three different operators; normal Vr (not short field) was either 85 or 90 Kts depending on the particular company SOPs.

I can't really blame the crew for not wanting to fly if they had a serious issue right at Vr. A fully loaded Chieftain won't climb on one below Vyse at all. That is a good 15 to 20 knots above Vr. There is some pucker factor until you reach 107 KIAS. Even then my understanding is that you will only see 50-100 FPM climb at that speed.

[Gear Jerker]

Aircraft had taxied from the overrun area to a private hanger area on the airport. Both main tires were observed to be badly damaged and completely flat.

sounds like a hell of a job by the crew!

Agreed.

Lol! I'm definitely not defending that part of it. Who knows what conversations occurred and with whom after they were shutdown.

[oldtimer]

Some may think it is a mute point but the Navajo airplane (and any other airplanes in the same category) does not have a V1 speed. V1 is a decision speed used for airplanes that have certified one engine inoperative take-off perfomance. Accelerate-stop or accelerate-go. All the Navajo has is Vr, rotation speed, and what BLR calls Barrier speed. The Airplane Flight Manual is a bit of a Walter Mitty dream world when it deals with engine failure on take-off. It appears to only offer suggestions until the airplane is configured for OEI climb.
In fact if the take-off is made utilizing short field techniques with approch flap down, the suggestion is to pull all power off and land on whatever is in front of the airplane, hopefully something soft and inexpensive.
All multi engine airplanes certified in the Normal Category with 9 passenger seats (excluding crew) or less can be considered to be a single engine airplane until such time as the airplane in configured for OEI climb. Go to USA FAR 23/CARS 523 and read.
I found many pilots are misinformed about the required performance capabilities of many light and or cabin class twins.
It appears this crew were faced with a tough decision and for the most part made the best of it.

[Gear Jerker]

Ok there, internet tough guy.

So what qualifies as a discussion worthy accident or incident to your standards, whatever they are? Bear in mind that the only non productive comment in this thread so far has been yours.

The reason I brought this up is because knowing what I know, some of which I won't post, this one definitely could have ended badly and the crew did a good job to achieve "just a Navajo overrun".

You'll notice they've pulled down the CADOR. I don't know how/why that would happen but it's not something I've seen before.

Anyway, I'm done with this

[Canoehead]

post deleted

[altiplano]

For real Jerker - you're a jerk.

Oldtimer is spot on explaining the facts of certification requirements for light twins and how it all fits together with this. His is certainly the only post offering any real information that may be relevant to this accident.

[tipsails]

I don't know what rumor mill the OP was listening to but I heard it was an engine surge on take off and decided to reject. Tire blown while stopping. Nothing too extraordinary.

[J31]

For real Jerker - you're a jerk.

Oldtimer is spot on explaining the facts of certification requirements for light twins and how it all fits together with this. His is certainly the only post offering any real information that may be relevant to this accident.

Gear Jerker was not responding to Oldtimer.....he was responding to a post that disappeared. I suspect the mods removed the post as it did not contribute to the thread and took personal shots.

[altiplano]

In that case I apologise. Looked like the only post he was referring to was oldtimer.

[Canoehead]

Apologies also. Deleted my post

[pelmet]

Looks like it was a mag problem.

The Orca Airways PA-31-350 aircraft, C-GWXL, lost power on the left engine (Lycoming TIO-540-
J2BD) during the take-off run on Runway 11 at Qualicum Beach, BC (CAT4). The take-off was
rejected, however both main tires blew and the aircraft overran the end of the runway. There were
no injuries.

The operator’s maintenance replaced the left engine's (single-drive) dual magnetos (P/N 10-
682910-13) and both main wheel assemblies. A hard landing inspection and multiple gear swings
were also performed.

[cncpc]

If it was at rotation then it was past v1 which means they should have gone flying meaning not such a good job. Unless it was a single engine aircraft of course

Are you a pilot?