Wasaya caravan missing

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Bede
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by Bede »

Yes, this is a difficult day for everyone. But this happens far too often to our newest pilots. But out of respect for the deceased, we may as well learn from this as difficult as it may be for some.
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55+
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by 55+ »

Shortly after that Caravan crash in Winnipeg few yrs back due airframe ice in which the pilot lost her life, I was contracted to do IAP designs and subsequent procedure flight checks for northern sites. I let it be known I will not conduct any flight checking in that aircraft type. There were some lively commentary from the contractor but I prevailed, BE200 was provided.
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New Flyer
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by New Flyer »

TheFrankestFrank wrote:Many facts to come yet so a little early to be trying speculate as to whether the pilot succumbed to cold or injuries sustained. My comment is directed to the person that talked about inadequate de-icing facilities. Although I agree de-icing in remote communities can be and is a problem it had nothing to do with this event. This was an in-flight icing encounter, the flight encountered ice while en-route and a decision to return to Pickle Lake was made, the flight did not make it. Many things will be examined by the TSB and the regulator going forward, lets hope they are able to determine the true root causes of how and why this happened. I can assure it isn't as simple as the aircraft encountering icing that was beyond the capabilities of the aircraft.
While I realize the situation is not identical, I think it is still completely relevant. Because these aircraft are not effectively deiced prior to departure, they are absolutely contaminated already when leaving. So then they add a little more on the next leg. And then a little more on the next leg after that. And so on. A recipe for disaster.
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fish4life
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by fish4life »

I'm sure lots of us have or still do work in the north and the thing I find the most concerning is the time it took to get to this pilot from the time he was spotted. Our SAR crews are top notch but the lack of resources we have is concerning, why do we have helicopters that can't fly into icing in a SAR role? This aircraft went down somewhere that isn't even all that remote what if it was in the arctic or out of range of any ground based rescue ? Would it be a couple days as we wait for the weather conditions to get better?

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commenta ... pters.html

This is a known issue and although I don't know if this was a contributing factor in this accident do we have to wait until this becomes a contributing factor in future accidents to fix this?
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NickyNick
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by NickyNick »

I'd rather have the money spent on infrastructure in the big cities which is over due that a much larger portion of the population would use than for some spiffy aircraft to go look for people that will never learn from past mistakes of others. Why these Caravan drivers and operators don't get it by now is hard to understand. I'm starting to think it's lack of experience and inability to make a competant descision. Aircraft placarded with do not fly into known or forecast icing, AFM has it, past accidents tell you not to. Seems some aren't taking the issue seriously. Might be time to just put a stop to all wintertime flying for the caravan if the crews and operators can't understand the do not fly into known or forecast icing warning.
fish4life wrote:I'm sure lots of us have or still do work in the north and the thing I find the most concerning is the time it took to get to this pilot from the time he was spotted. Our SAR crews are top notch but the lack of resources we have is concerning, why do we have helicopters that can't fly into icing in a SAR role? This aircraft went down somewhere that isn't even all that remote what if it was in the arctic or out of range of any ground based rescue ? Would it be a couple days as we wait for the weather conditions to get better?

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commenta ... pters.html

This is a known issue and although I don't know if this was a contributing factor in this accident do we have to wait until this becomes a contributing factor in future accidents to fix this?
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timel
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by timel »

New Flyer wrote:
Because these aircraft are not effectively deiced prior to departure, they are absolutely contaminated already when leaving.
Everyone knows, nobody says.

This kind of tanks are definitely the worst de-icing technic on a multiple leg route.
image.jpg
image.jpg (16.48 KiB) Viewed 2641 times
There should be at least, a cost share and heated tank on every airport where pilots could refill with glycol.


Rest in peace to the pilot, this is an other sad day.
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Last edited by timel on Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

D_Thissen
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by D_Thissen »

I see a lot of comments about him being green or new. FWIW this wasn't his first winter in the North. I believe he had been flying in YQT (on the PC-12) since the summer of 2010.
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

SmokinJoe wrote:
I know this operator has an ops spec to be VFR in uncontrolled airspace at 300ft and 1 mile vis, this needs to be done away with. It is not conducive to safety and needs to be done away with. A caravan has no business flying around in those conditions.
A shining example of legal not necessarily being safe! Or smart, for that matter.
Illya
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tipsails
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by tipsails »

fish4life wrote:I'm sure lots of us have or still do work in the north and the thing I find the most concerning is the time it took to get to this pilot from the time he was spotted. Our SAR crews are top notch but the lack of resources we have is concerning, why do we have helicopters that can't fly into icing in a SAR role? This aircraft went down somewhere that isn't even all that remote what if it was in the arctic or out of range of any ground based rescue ? Would it be a couple days as we wait for the weather conditions to get better?

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commenta ... pters.html

This is a known issue and although I don't know if this was a contributing factor in this accident do we have to wait until this becomes a contributing factor in future accidents to fix this?
I believe it was a Dryden based MNR Heli that tried to get out there, not an actual SAR one. But I may have wrong info.
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Rockie
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by Rockie »

Tragic. My condolences to the family, friends and co-workers of Captain Little.
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awitzke
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by awitzke »

People are quick to jump another small operator in the area out and about flying in 300+1 but no one says anything about the bigger operators.

I was stuck in Red Lake not long ago during the big fog in. We weren't flying, Bearskin was grounded and Wasaya was no where to be seen. Yet the DC3 was out flying from CYRL, VFR legs to who knows where. I saw them come and go 3 or 4 times during the day. With the METARS showing 1/2SM fluctuating and 200-300VV. I was somewhat shocked to see them in the air. Legal? Maybe. Smart? Well... I personally don't think so but then again I am inexperienced in the grand scheme of northern flying so others might disagree on what is OK and what is not.

Rest in peace to Cpt. Nick Little. Hopefully this tragic loss will be a reminder and perhaps a learning tool for others going forward.
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Bede
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by Bede »

awitzke wrote:People are quick to jump another small operator in the area out and about flying in 300+1 but no one says anything about the bigger operators.

I was stuck in Red Lake not long ago during the big fog in. We weren't flying, Bearskin was grounded and Wasaya was no where to be seen. Yet the DC3 was out flying from CYRL, VFR legs to who knows where. I saw them come and go 3 or 4 times during the day. With the METARS showing 1/2SM fluctuating and 200-300VV. I was somewhat shocked to see them in the air. Legal? Maybe. Smart? Well... I personally don't think so but then again I am inexperienced in the grand scheme of northern flying so others might disagree on what is OK and what is not.
You know how that eventually goes? The guy does this kind of crap for years, but eventually his actions bites him in the back side. You can only tempt fate for so long. Then everyone comes on this forum and talks about how he was such a great and experienced pilot.
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awitzke
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by awitzke »

I agree.
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black hole
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by black hole »

Was it the ELT that fixed his position or was it something other.

BH
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jspitfire
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by jspitfire »

NickyNick wrote: Why these Caravan drivers and operators don't get it by now is hard to understand. I'm starting to think it's lack of experience and inability to make a competant descision. Aircraft placarded with do not fly into known or forecast icing, AFM has it, past accidents tell you not to. Seems some aren't taking the issue seriously. Might be time to just put a stop to all wintertime flying for the caravan if the crews and operators can't understand the do not fly into known or forecast icing warning.
Many Caravans ARE certified for flight into known icing. There's an extensive supplement (S1) in the AFM about it.

Can someone clarify if Wasaya's Caravans are certified or not?

J
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TheFrankestFrank
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by TheFrankestFrank »

They are not, they decided years ago modifications were cost prohibitive. It was not located by an ELT, it was not squawking. The aircraft was outfitted with a GPS based flight tracking devise called SkyTrac which I imagine supplied the primary data for the search area.
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av8ts
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by av8ts »

glorifieddriver wrote:edited out the insults. You can probably get your point across more effectively without the strong wording For the respect for our fellow aviators please, let's not write our thoughts and opinions. Wait for the facts, for now lets extend our hope for the pilot! I hope he is okay

And then he writes his thoughts and opinion
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

awitzke wrote:People are quick to jump another small operator in the area out and about flying in 300+1 but no one says anything about the bigger operators.

I was stuck in Red Lake not long ago during the big fog in. We weren't flying, Bearskin was grounded and Wasaya was no where to be seen. Yet the DC3 was out flying from CYRL, VFR legs to who knows where. I saw them come and go 3 or 4 times during the day. With the METARS showing 1/2SM fluctuating and 200-300VV. I was somewhat shocked to see them in the air. Legal? Maybe. Smart? Well... I personally don't think so but then again I am inexperienced in the grand scheme of northern flying so others might disagree on what is OK and what is not.
d.
Twin turboprops, flown by experienced crews. 1/2 mile departures are safe and legal. And.....I'm sure they didn't stay under the ceilings. No worries.
Illya
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Rudderless
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by Rudderless »

Does no one find it ironic that Wasaya's statement regarding the reason SAR could not reach the aircraft, was due to the same weather conditions that probably caused the accident in the first place? I'd be interested in knowing what the forecast was in the area, and if icing was forecast, why was the flight dispatched and accepted by the pilot. RIP, Cpt. Little :-(.
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2R
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by 2R »

Only one crew member found ?
I thought they agreed to operate two crew in the Caravan after the summer beaver crash ?
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