New Caravan Icing Course

[stef]

Bad timing. Poor taste.

[Boreas]

Free of charge.

Now theres you mistake right there!

This "course" is worth so much more...

[trey kule]

These are pretty good airplanes and they have some envirormental protection systems, which should not be used as a reason for a stupid pilot to take on mother nature. . If you've got snow or frost on top of your wings you've got a really good chance of dying. Going out in fzdz or fzra is both really stupid and really dangerous. A couple of these things crash from ice every winter when everyone else seems to make it through ok. A couple of these things crash every year because the pilots tried to fly them in conditions where no one else was trying to get through. Or think if they dont have a heavy load they can take off with frost on the wings, or defeat freezing rain or drizzle
The plane has one major weakness in dealing with icing....the pilot

There, fixed it for you.

[Jean-Pierre]

I think freezing rain is more dangerous than some frost but none is a good idea. The problem is the plane is gutless not that it is particularly prone to pick up ice. Either give it more power or reduce the load they are allowed to carry.

[stef]

Yeah I'll agree that's better. Just re-thinking my timing though. I'm going to delete it. Cheers.

[trey kule]

Jean Pierre.
Please read carefully

No frost..get it...no frost on wings before departure
No flying in freezing rain or drizzle. Get it? Dont fly if there any chance of this

No exceptions, for light loads of bigger engines. You will live longer

If you think that flying lighter or having more power on the Caravan is somehow going to allow you to fly in these condtions you are a special kind of stupid, and we will no doubt be reading about your attempts in future accident threads or obituaries.

What does it take for pilots to say No.

[Boreas]

Yout trolling tight?

No frost..get it...no frost
No flying in freezing rain or drizxle. Get it? Dont fly

If you think that flying lighter or having more power on the Caravan is somehow going to allow you to fly in these condtions you are a special kind of stupid, and we will no doubt be reading about your attempts in future accident threads or obituaries.

What does it take for pilots to say No.

Maybe if you got rid of the struts, pod and made it RG... and even then.

Don't get me wrong, I like the plane and have quite a bit of time on it, but I was fortunate enough to fly it mostly around the equator.

[stef]

Who me trolling? Nope. Didn't mean to imply that other stuff which is why I agreed with you. Rest easy.

[stef]

Dick

[trey kule]

Stef. I was not referring to your posts at all.
It was the post that lightening the load would some how make a 208 invulnerable to ice and frost.

But thank you for callng me a dick...it is a long river that has no curves. And I am revengful.

Personally, I have been around long enough to have seen so many young piilots die and kill others because they somehow think they can mess with frost and ice if they just take a lighter load, or go have a look see, or remain in icing conditions because they think they have an out.

Maybe, just maybe, if we can get it across to them to just stay on the ground, and make sure they dont ever try to take off with frost on the wings because " we all know a plane will take off with some frost on the wings", we can save a few of them from themselves.

I am always amazed at some who seeing frost on the wings for the first time are accurately able to predict, without error, the flight characteristics..

After the accident everyone plays the "I was under pressure" card...you never hear them say...boy, was I stupid. And those that get away with or like to tell others that they got away with it just make them bolder.
Now you may continue with calling me names.

[stef]

Haha touché. No I was calling you a dick for (I thought) calling me a special kind of stupid. Guess I'll reluctantly retract that then

[schnitzel2k3]

Never flown the booted version.

TKS helps a bunch, but you need more speed to be able to break off anything that is stuck on.

It's amazing how much airspeed you lose with even a small amount of ice ANYWHERE on the airframe. I don't know how people survived flying the 600 hp booted version in ice. The FAA should've pulled the FIKI certificate a long time ago.

S.

[garfield]

Fly your C208 with an oxygen mask at FL200 : it's gonna be a lot safer and relax.

[schnitzel2k3]

May'be empty.

S.

[TeePeeCreeper]

208+ice=a no dispatch/or an (hopefully) uneventful 180' 'outta there!

I once scared myself silly in conditions that should have never had me self dispatch a 208 in the first place.
Love and trust a 208, but a lovely gal turns into a bitch and nighmare quickly. Reminds me of my ex wife actually!

All the best,
TPC

[letsfly]

If your 208 has de-icing boots, prop de-ice and a hot plate, and you need them then best stay home.

[Strega]

If your 208 has de-icing boots, prop de-ice and a hot plate, and you need them then best stay home.

Words of a wise man.

[schnitzel2k3]

Agreed.

[rigpiggy]

When GGN flew the Van's they had several accidents. After Pelee Island the Sop changed to a min icing speed until built up sufficiently to shed, stuff the nose down to get speed before blowing the boots, then return to Min ice speed to climb back up. Shortly thereafter they had a plane get into icing, did that until he broke out at around 300' by london while dodging towers, overtorqued/temp'd to keep it in the air. GGN's response, "See our new procedures work". Someone here more knowledgeable on the van will tell you how much weight you lose for FIKI, something like 800#. The -42/140 Mod will go along way to saving your @ss

[rxl]

Is that actually a Cessna procedure?

[Independence]

I'm sure that is not a Cessna approved procedure but I will say the following. If I have ice on the wings of the Caravan I try and get about an extra 15% of airspeed by pitching down before blowing the boots. I believe drag increases by speed squared and drag is what helps shed the ice so a 15% speed increase is about 30% increase in drag and my experience is that makes quite a difference in helping shed ice.

I know that 'bridging' isn't supposed to be real but I hate that feeling when you blow the boots in criuise at say 125 kts and get negligible results. My observations are that the boots don't seem to work worth a damn after that.

To be clear though I am not advocating flying a 208 in icing generally. If I can't get on top of cloud or stay between layers then it likely isn't going to work.

[schnitzel2k3]

I know a lot of guys I flew with saved blowing the boots on other turboprops until descent when you were likely at BP.

Agreed on the improved ice shed.

EX Caravan pilots won't have to worry about that issue. They get the enjoyment of having to run the anti ice system while flying through heavy snow (something a booted Caravan would laugh at), and blowing ramp snow freezing to the leading edge while on the ground. More of a nuisance, but I will happily take TKS over boots on a Van any day of the week.

Fly safe fellas!

And Happy New Year!

S.

[Sulako]

I was in the air when the 208 went down in Winnipeg. I heard her voice.

http://www.pprune.org/canada/193089-ces ... nipeg.html

//It's a PPrune link and it's chock-full of good information.

What I heard on the radio was a pilot taking off and then immediately asking for a 180 and then crashing and dying because of icing.

It was a greasy day. Icing everywhere. I wasn't in my happy place, but our equipment worked and every other turboprop in the air lived that day...

Just not the Caravan. I have no idea what witchcraft resulted in it being certified for icing, but whomever signed off on it should be informed that they have blood on their hands, because they abso-freaking-lutely lied about its capabilities. This is not an icing airplane.

[schnitzel2k3]

That was the accident that forced FedEx's hand in installing TKS on their northern Caravan's first.

Good post Sulako.

S.