Leasing private C150

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photofly
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Re: Leasing private C150

Post by photofly »

My broker told me that if I wanted to profit from a block hire arrangement, I would 100% definitely need to make that known to the insurer and the premium would be different.

I don't really care if anyone thinks that's guidance, or an opinion, or what the difference between the two is.
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CpnCrunch
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Re: Leasing private C150

Post by CpnCrunch »

LousyFisherman wrote:
CpnCrunch wrote: $2k/yr seems very high for a C150. Or was that a different plane.
$2K a year is what it costs to insure a C150 that ANY LICENSED PPL is allowed to fly. It is roughly double the cost to insure 1-4 individual pilots on a C150. Above 4 pilots cost goes up

YMMV
LF
We're paying $725/yr insurance for any accident-free 250+ hr PPL under 70 with 25hr on type and current in last 90 days. No increase in cost for allowing anyone to fly, but they don't want the owner to make a profit. Perhaps if you're paying $2k/yr they don't mind whether or not you make a profit.
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Leasing private C150

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

I don't think having renter pilots make your airplane payments for you is making a "profit". Simply factor you payments into your rental rate. Along with engine overhaul reserves, etc. Just makes sinse. NOBODY is getting rich renting a 150 to typical cheap ass PPLs.
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photofly
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Re: Leasing private C150

Post by photofly »

Illya Kuryakin wrote:I don't think having renter pilots make your airplane payments for you is making a "profit". Simply factor you payments into your rental rate.
Add up all your costs on the aircraft including depreciation, interest payments, engine allowance, oil, fuel, annual inspection, consumables, interior refubishment fund, paint fund, insurance, hangarage and anything else you can reasonably think of - and divide by the number of hours you fly in a year.

If you charge more than per hour that you're making a profit, and if so, and you're insured with my insurance company - they want to know and will adjust your premium accordingly.

Not complicated.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
ScudRunner
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Re: Leasing private C150

Post by ScudRunner »

exactly what photofly said regarding profit.

your radios say cost $2000 you will "need" to replace them in 1000 hours so $2000 / 1000hrs = $2 bucks depreciation an hour. now in 1000 hours of flying your radios still work just fine and you use them for another 1000 hours and still they work just fine.

Are you making 2 bucks an hour "profit" ? don't think so.

Your interior costs $1000 to replace
Your paint costs $10,000 to repaint.
Your glass costs $1500 to replace.
Your propeller costs $3000 to replace.

You get the idea, you might be "pocketing" at the end of the day $30 "reserves" per hour. If your wise you will put it away ready just in case something goes bang. You might not need to replace the prop and can get it overhauled for half that ,but what if you need a new one at TBO or sooner?
You better have some reserves to keep your plane flying.

If you're considering buying a plane I think the first thing you should do is get familiar with the TBOs of the aircraft your looking at purchasing. Get an idea about replacement costs and consumable costs etc then sit down and make a spreadsheet and see how much it is actually going to cost you per hour.

These guys have a speadsheet you can download and start plugging in numbers.
http://www.cessna150-152club.com/

http://www.cessna150-152.com/Cost_of_Ownership.xls
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Bede
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Re: Leasing private C150

Post by Bede »

$2k/yr was for a C172. The insurance knew all about the rental hence why the premium was $2k instead of $1k. It's still not commercial insurance.
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CpnCrunch
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Re: Leasing private C150

Post by CpnCrunch »

Bede wrote:$2k/yr was for a C172. The insurance knew all about the rental hence why the premium was $2k instead of $1k. It's still not commercial insurance.
It's not commercial in the TC definition, but if you're making a profit then it is commercial in the legal sense. The insurance company is just concerned about risk, and making a profit is just one factor that might result in you being a higher risk. Renting it out to a lot of low-time pilots is another risk.
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