where or where is my little ramp job?

stuckinthemiddle · Post by **stuckinthemiddle** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:26 am

i dont spose any of you guys from the edmonton/calgary area know of any small companies in need of some ramp stars come january. im stuck in saskatchewan right now, with about 6 months of ramp time, but its time to get out of the flat lands.
whats the odds looking like at either airport?

groundtoflightdeck · Post by **groundtoflightdeck** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:47 am

The guys I know that started in SK, have done a lot better than the guys in AB, if you stick it out you might catch a break.

stuckinthemiddle · Post by **stuckinthemiddle** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:38 am

definatly not the news i wanted! i was at yyc the other day, theres a bunch of operations out of there... dont those places need rampies? or do they just hire ramp guys as ramp guys with no expectations for being a pilot. sask is great, i just think a change of scenery would be nice. looking for some seasonal work i think, anyone heard anything?

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:55 am

If your a pilot and looking for a break, YYC or YEG ramps (or any major city for that matter) are NOT the places to be looking. You need to get away from the citys and go where most won't. Try Perimeter, try north wright, try joe's flying pizza as long as it's away from the city and there are small opperators around.

If your not willing to put in your time up north, it's going to be a long road ahead. In the words of our CP assistant...Suck it up princess.

Cheers.

Phlyer · Post by **Phlyer** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:03 am

Try Peace Air in Peace River. I know one guy who just got flying after six months on the ramp. A good kid and a real keener - competition is tough so make yourself stand out for the right reasons.

stuckinthemiddle · Post by **stuckinthemiddle** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:08 am

i could probably get my ramp job back in SK. but im not done my CPL or the MULTI-IFR, ive got about another 85 hours. im towing gliders and that, should i try and work college, flying, and working the ramp? would it be worth it?

r22captain · Post by **r22captain** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:03 pm

ShellAero center at YEG is always looking......but owned by AltaFLights...take that as you will

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:11 pm

Stuck in the middle..check your PM.

scubasteve · Post by **scubasteve** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:12 pm

can you tow gliders without a CPL?

stuckinthemiddle · Post by **stuckinthemiddle** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:29 pm

yeah for sure. at the club i fly for they dont pay me, they just dont cahrge me anything to fly for them. i think thats the line, wheter or not you are making a profit.
but i look at it as them paying me $120/hr.
i also have my glider license, but i dont really know if that has much bearing. its more of a spare time thing, but you can use up to 50 hours towards your CPL, thats why im staying with it for now. otherwise, its a hobby.

Phlyer · Post by **Phlyer** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:49 pm

Sounds like you are set up where you're at. When I first started long ago I had an offer to tow gliders for no money. Young and full of ideals I said 'no way' to flying for no money. Then I instructed instead!

I would stay where you're at until you get at least 500 tt. Realistically no one will look at you until then. 1000 is a benchmark to get a 'real' job imo.
Ps. PIC time is gold when you are finally flying right seat in a bigger twin. It will get you into the left seat; your buddy with no pic will be stuck right seat for ever.

4hrstovegas · Post by **4hrstovegas** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:23 am

How ironic. You're participating in a program where they scab out labour instead of paying commercial pilots, and now that you'll have your CPL, you won't be able to work for them because they're not willing to pay a pilot with an actual CPL and more experience. HAHAHAHA!

confuzed · Post by **confuzed** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:23 am

stuckinthemiddle wrote:i could probably get my ramp job back in SK. but im not done my CPL or the MULTI-IFR, ive got about another 85 hours. im towing gliders and that, should i try and work college, flying, and working the ramp? would it be worth it?

Ummmmm, isn't that great.....somone working for free doing a job that a commercial guy could be getting paid to do. Don't even know where to start with that one. Blood pressure rising, rising, rising....POP! Uh oh, I think I need a doctor.....I'll be back.

AZN 027 · Post by **AZN 027** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:57 pm

confuzed wrote:
Ummmmm, isn't that great.....somone working for free doing a job that a commercial guy could be getting paid to do. Don't even know where to start with that one. Blood pressure rising, rising, rising....POP! Uh oh, I think I need a doctor.....I'll be back.

First of all, you don't need a commercial licence to tow gliders. Secondly, gliding clubs don't pay their tow pilots unless they are a commercial organization. I can only think of one commercial organization in Canada and they are based out of Invermere, BC. Towing gliders for free is completely different from buying a PPC and working for free in that sense.

A gliding club is a club and the money that they generate from membership fees or intro rides to the public, is pumped right back into the gliding club to cover expenses and even exand the club fleet. Nobody within the gliding club pockets any money whatsoever. The members are all volunteers. It just so turns out that towing gliders isn't a bad way to build time.

So you can now let your blood pressure come back down because towing gliders is different from working for free at an organization that turns a profit for themselves.

confuzed · Post by **confuzed** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 1:13 pm

[/quote]First of all, you don't need a commercial licence to tow gliders. Secondly, gliding clubs don't pay their tow pilots unless they are a commercial organization. I can only think of one commercial organization in Canada and they are based out of Invermere, BC. Towing gliders for free is completely different from buying a PPC and working for free in that sense.

A gliding club is a club and the money that they generate from membership fees or intro rides to the public, is pumped right back into the gliding club to cover expenses and even exand the club fleet. Nobody within the gliding club pockets any money whatsoever. The members are all volunteers. It just so turns out that towing gliders isn't a bad way to build time.

So you can now let your blood pressure come back down because towing gliders is different from working for free at an organization that turns a profit for themselves.[/quote]

I never said that you can't tow gliders with a private licence....However, when you're getting rewarded in some fashion for doing it I indicated that wouldn't you need a commercial licence for this? Any flying that you do for reward (I.E. him not having to pay for renting an a/c.....that's what I gathered from it at least) requires a commerical licence (or so I was taught way back when). When you have someone doing something for free that a commercial guy could do as time building and get paid for is frustrating. How would you feel as a commercial guy coming into a club and seeing some private pilot towing gliders for "reward" (free usage of the aircraft when they want it) and not being paid to do it? I'm sure you'd be a little frustrated knowing that you just shelled out all this $$ so you could earn money while flying and someone is doing it for free. Especially if they're just doing it to build time to get a commercial. It's like someone else stated, it's a pretty ironic situation. Whatever though, whatever people want to do is up to them I could care less. Just pointing something out, playing devil's advocate if you may.

termerair · Post by **termerair** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:40 pm

Anyway, i can say that working as a tow pilot for the Invermere Soaring Center is a very nice experience... And conditions aren't bad at all!

Fly safe!

Termerair

stuckinthemiddle · Post by **stuckinthemiddle** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:54 am

holy, i didnt expect the anger towards free flying. go to your gliding zone, chances are they'll throw you on the roster ASAP. from what ive seen, gliding zones are hurting all over everywhere, the interest is down and they are loosing guy to put in the airplanes. so instead of getting all pissed off, call your gliding club, or your jump club. sweet talk your way into the left seat. i fly a 150, so whatever - dont expect anything special. its still free flying, and it beats the hell out of paying for it. so go do it.

LostinRotation · Post by **LostinRotation** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:43 am

stuckinthemiddle wrote:holy, i didnt expect the anger towards free flying. go to your gliding zone, chances are they'll throw you on the roster ASAP. from what ive seen, gliding zones are hurting all over everywhere, the interest is down and they are loosing guy to put in the airplanes.

Actually I went out to a glider club near Cambridge and they wanted you to buy a membership and put up like 30-50 hours in their gliders before they would consider letting you fly their tow planes without pay. Roughly about $2500-3000. I originally went out there to look into getting back into gliding ( how I started in aviation ) and inquired about the tow planes. Needless to say after hearing the process I was put off flying with a club with the above mentioned practices.

-=0=LIR=0=-

confuzed · Post by **confuzed** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:17 pm

stuckinthemiddle wrote:holy, i didnt expect the anger towards free flying. go to your gliding zone, chances are they'll throw you on the roster ASAP. from what ive seen, gliding zones are hurting all over everywhere, the interest is down and they are loosing guy to put in the airplanes. so instead of getting all pissed off, call your gliding club, or your jump club. sweet talk your way into the left seat. i fly a 150, so whatever - dont expect anything special. its still free flying, and it beats the hell out of paying for it. so go do it.

Hey man, no anger from me...I was just buggin yah! I do know quite a few people though that are starting out and are quite frustrated by situations as this. I'd actually love a chance to get my soaring licence, think that'd be awesome. Just can't swing the $$$ to do it, regardless of how scaled back the requirements are.

As for lostinrotation, that sounds just plain retarded! For them to let you fly for free you have to shell out $$$...how does that make sense, oh I guess it doesn't

Maybe they just want you to know the area/get a feel for their equipment and it's capabilities? I dunno, you're the one that's down there so I have no idea how well you know the area and the equipment. Still sounds like a money grab though....what else is new.

ei ei owe · Post by **ei ei owe** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:58 pm

I towed for three seasons in Hope while finishing some requirements on my license and it was a blast. Sure no pay, but hell, I was towing in t shirts, shorts and sandals. All you had to do was put up with a less than reliable group of glider guys that would wait for the "best conditions." The taildragger time got me a job in Ontario. That pic time will, I'm sure, help me out at some point. Stuckinthemiddle, I'd say that you'll have to bite the bullet and start a real job hunt. Can't tell you when, but waiting times look good for ramp jobs these days. You never know what other taildragger opportunities will come up in the meantime.

AZN 027 · Post by **AZN 027** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:23 pm

LostinRotation wrote:
Actually I went out to a glider club near Cambridge and they wanted you to buy a membership and put up like 30-50 hours in their gliders before they would consider letting you fly their tow planes without pay. Roughly about $2500-3000. I originally went out there to look into getting back into gliding ( how I started in aviation ) and inquired about the tow planes. Needless to say after hearing the process I was put off flying with a club with the above mentioned practices.

-=0=LIR=0=-

The reason why they make you put up 30-50 hours in their gliders is so that the aspiring tow pilot can get a feel for what soaring is all about. To become a good tow pilot, once must understand the principles behind gliding and lift and all that. Gliding clubs do not want candidates with zero gliding knowledge jumping into the tow plane and expecting to fly. They also do not want pilots showing up, expecting to tow and just go home. Like I said before, its a club and everybody contributes not only by flying the airplane but by doing other stuff like maintenance , ground duties and other misc jobs. In the past, they've had commercial pilots just show up and fly the airplane and then leave. Thats a huge turn off for gliding clubs everywhere.

I must agree that 30-50 hrs is a lot of time in the gliders. That number is a little bit skewed, most people that are power pilots and are interested in towing, are encouraged to buy 10 hr glider blocks and do it like that at the club your talking about.

AZN 027 · Post by **AZN 027** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:39 pm

confuzed wrote:
I never said that you can't tow gliders with a private licence....However, when you're getting rewarded in some fashion for doing it I indicated that wouldn't you need a commercial licence for this? Any flying that you do for reward (I.E. him not having to pay for renting an a/c.....that's what I gathered from it at least) requires a commerical licence (or so I was taught way back when). When you have someone doing something for free that a commercial guy could do as time building and get paid for is frustrating. How would you feel as a commercial guy coming into a club and seeing some private pilot towing gliders for "reward" (free usage of the aircraft when they want it) and not being paid to do it? I'm sure you'd be a little frustrated knowing that you just shelled out all this $$ so you could earn money while flying and someone is doing it for free. Especially if they're just doing it to build time to get a commercial. It's like someone else stated, it's a pretty ironic situation. Whatever though, whatever people want to do is up to them I could care less. Just pointing something out, playing devil's advocate if you may.

Actually I would have no problem with some private guy coming into the club and towing for free. Sure it might piss me off because he's taking up my hours but your not understanding the premise behind the GLIDING CLUB.

NOBODY IS MAKING MONEY.

It be no different than a group of mates getting together and buying an airplane and flying it a lot. Everybody pitches in some cash (membership fee) and expenses related to flying are covered.

A gliding club is just on a larger scale. My membership fee helps pay flying expenses.

If the gliding club was owned by one person and he pocketed the profits that the club earned through membership fees and still the pilots did not get paid, then there would be an issue.

Take Skydive Toronto. The boss makes money and pockets it. The pilots on the other hand, don't get paid. NO DEAL.

confuzed · Post by **confuzed** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:33 am

AZN 027 wrote: Actually I would have no problem with some private guy coming into the club and towing for free. Sure it might piss me off because he's taking up my hours but your not understanding the premise behind the GLIDING CLUB.

NOBODY IS MAKING MONEY.

It be no different than a group of mates getting together and buying an airplane and flying it a lot. Everybody pitches in some cash (membership fee) and expenses related to flying are covered.

A gliding club is just on a larger scale. My membership fee helps pay flying expenses.

If the gliding club was owned by one person and he pocketed the profits that the club earned through membership fees and still the pilots did not get paid, then there would be an issue.

Take Skydive Toronto. The boss makes money and pockets it. The pilots on the other hand, don't get paid. NO DEAL.

Ok that's cool, it's just my misunderstanding of how they operate. Hence the reason why I'd like to earn my glider licence one day. It looks like a lot of fun, and it would be interesting to see another aspect of flying. There's not too many clubs where I'm from and where I am right now, so there is a few misconceptions on my behalf.

stuckinthemiddle · Post by **stuckinthemiddle** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:14 am

speaking of gliders... i know that you can use 50 hours towards your CPL, but can you use glider time you did BEFORE you did your PPL towards your CPL? i've been asking around at the flight schools and nobody seems to know... im going to assume so, just because it works for me. does anyone know the answer?