0-320 OH

[robertw]

Lots... enough to know it does not take 50hrs of labor to do...

I've got to call some BS here. I've got a number of years in a component overhaul shop and a number of years experience with the 0-320 and know that the overhaul process takes time to accomplish. It's not just taking something apart, doing a visual inspection, NDT and then slapping the unit back together. The whole unit has to be disassembled, cleaned, each part dimensionally and visually inspected, sub-components tested, unit re-assembled and painted and in some cases test run.

You can't just say "I've overhauled lots of these things in less than 50 hours." and let that be the justification for your position. Was it 49 hours it took you? Maybe 47? Did you follow all of the manufacturers recommendations when you did that "Overhaul"? Did you overhaul it by the book? did you do a "Top Overhaul" (not a true overhaul)? Were you working only on your own engines where if you cut corners, it was your own butt on the line?

50 hours of labour is only 2 guys and 3 working days with a couple of hours left for technical record entries. I really don't see how you could have a problem with that.

[Strega]

I've got to call some BS here. I've got a number of years in a component overhaul shop and a number of years experience with the 0-320 and know that the overhaul process takes time to accomplish.

We can agree to disagree then...

I know how long it takes to do stuff.. I dont inspect any of the internals myself,, they go to Aircraft Specialties in Tulsa for proper inspection and rework..

The last 360 I tore down, was all done before lunch.. and all parts shipped out in the PM.. Im waiting for everything at the moment to come back.. Divco has the case, and found some issues... it will require rework so might be another couple weeks before I can start assembling.. will let you know how long it takes.

[photofly]

What's your fee to overhaul?

Are your offering?

[Strega]

Maybe I should.. I doubt I would find many customers as most people in Canada will not have an overhaul performed by an individual AME.. (they think the AMO is the way to go)

[photofly]

I would prefer by far an individual AME, albeit one with acknowledged expertise in engine overhauls.

How much cheaper would the labour be with you? Would it make a significant difference to the price? I don't see how it could; the part cost would be the same.

[Strega]

I wouldnt be marking up parts, would only be for my time actually spent... call it 20 hours to do a 320..

[photofly]

I respect your good intentions but I have a suspicion that at the end of the year and after your fixed costs, you'd find your margins were unacceptably slim to want to continue.

[crazyaviator]

I dont inspect any of the internals myself,, they go to Aircraft Specialties in Tulsa for proper inspection and rework..

I wouldnt be marking up parts, would only be for my time actually spent... call it 20 hours to do a 320..

I have gone that route also but at 50 ish, im finally growing up. I can live in my hangar and eat kraft dinner and not mark up anything and charge my customers $35.00/Hr. Every owner would love me , but at the end of the day, if I really looked in the mirror, I would see an utterly stupid asshole !!!!

Strega,, You blow smoke up legitimate folks asses !!!

[photofly]

If you're going to stock goods on your shelves then I'll pay a reasonable markup for them. If you are sending my parts out for service, inspection, r-and-r - or buying parts to order - then if you charge a markup of more than a very few percent I'll leave you to your other customers. If you need to make more money increase your hourly rate. Don't try to fool me by hiding your profit in what you charge me for someone else's work.

I once had a mechanic charge me $900 for a $600 fuel tank repair from Hartwig. Plus carriage both ways. Plus his usual hourly rate for boxing, addressing, and unboxing it. Thoroughly disreputable.

[Greysierra]

Back to the original question....

At the AMO I work, we have until very recently only installed factory re-manufactured engines by Lycoming. Over the last 15 years, we have worked with several different Canadian shops but the prices ranged from $23,200 on the low end up to $32,700 on the high end. A lot of the variation is tied to exchange rate of the Canadian dollar. Engines came complete with mags, ignition harnesses, and carburetor. All other accessories are inspected and installed.

For us, this job takes approx. three days to tear down and remove old engine, build up, install and ground run re-manufactured engine. We generally plan on approx. 1 week of down time for the aircraft to allow for any unforeseen issues and miscellaneous repairs to baffles and such.

All of this is for a Lycoming O-320-H2AD installed in a Cessna 172N aircraft.

Hope that helps.

[crazyaviator]

I once had a mechanic charge me $900 for a $600 fuel tank repair from Hartwig. Plus carriage both ways. Plus his usual hourly rate for boxing, addressing, and unboxing it. Thoroughly disreputable.

I agree !

There are a myriad reasons why a mark-up is appropriate. And how much is appropriate !

Look at the other end,,,go to LP aero for a windshield ,,,,, $400.00, go to Aircraft spruce for the same windshield $400.00 What is happening here? Aircraft spruce enters into agreements and also buys "bulk" They get a discount, and mark up the product If you buy over the counter from LP you get a marked up rate. How can aircraft spruce survive as a parts re-seller without mark-up?

I mark up parts to cover COSTS. Profit is part of costs. Canadian tire stores pay for housing parts, they pay employees,etc, those are all costs.
When you get your paycheck from your boss, you dont say " Sir, I dont need this extra money because it only costs me $18.00/ Hr. to survive !!!

[Strega]

Crazy..

The whole point of "mark up" is adding value.

ordering parts as they are needed and marking them up 50% is (as I would call it) unethical business.

[DonutHole]

If a customer asks me to source a part I charge 15% markup.

[crazyaviator]

ordering parts as they are needed and marking them up 50% is (as I would call it) unethical business.

agree

If a customer asks me to source a part I charge 15% markup.

agree

The whole point of "mark up" is adding value.

Agree and i feel good when I add value and then add onto the price to reflect

Convenience is also a reason for mark-up
warranty considerations
no Qs asked return policies
and the list goes on

[PilotDAR]

it will require rework so might be another couple weeks before I can start assembling.. will let you know how long it takes.

Honestly, it's not a race... Don't speed through the job, looking at your stopwatch every 15 seconds. Those who you could be seeking to convince here will be much more impressed to hear that a quality job was done in the time it took, rather than beating the record by an hour.

I find that in general, the "watch this" mentality in aviation does not work out well. This extends to maintenance too. When work is done with the clock in mind, rather than the quality of the effort, things go wrong, or are missed.

I am generally unimpressed by people telling me how quickly or cheaply something can be done. I'd rather hear how well it can be done - the cost for that, is the cost of flying - no one told you it would be a low cost pastime!

[Strega]

I agree with you dar..

But there is a happy balance, you can have good quality, at a good price..taking 3 months to assemble is not better than 2 days..

Its like saying slow is safe.. (with respect to hse) slow is not safe, slow is slow.. Safe is safe.

[PilotDAR]

But there is a happy balance, you can have good quality....

Absolutely!

"Good quality" is defined as a minimum of the manufacturer's maintenance instructions, combined with good practice, and it can get better from there, if that is your expectation, and budget.

"Good price" is relative to informed expectations. Having uninformed expectations, will get you in trouble in negotiations for aircraft maintenance.

Its like saying slow is safe.. (with respect to hse) slow is not safe, slow is slow.. Safe is safe.

Quite true! I agree. (though I like the ME train video you posted!). You take your time, and do it right, rather than rush...

[rxl]

Is the O-320H2AD the 172 engine rated at 160 HP.? The one from the huge leap forward in 1977 or 78 to run on 100LL instead of 80/87?

[Greysierra]

Is the O-320H2AD the 172 engine rated at 160 HP.? The one from the huge leap forward in 1977 or 78 to run on 100LL instead of 80/87?

Correct. The O-320-H2AD is rated for 160HP at 2700RPM and runs 100LL.