Bearskin Pilots ratify 5 year deal

[bobcaygeon]

5 year contract ratified, existing contract expired Dec 31, 2015

[goingnowherefast]

Any good news? Or is it still 10k up front bond, and Navajo jobs pay better.

[Maynard]

Really? your going to compare a Navajo gig to the bear? That should be fun

[Illya Kuryakin]

Really? your going to compare a Navajo gig to the bear? That should be fun

Nope. He's asking about the 10K up front. Toss in a couple of the Bear's wonky SOPs, and it's not what it could be. These guys don't need to milk cash from new pilots. So, why does the practice continue?
Illya

[goingnowherefast]

Illya is right. I turned down a Bearskin job because of the ridiculous bond. Pilots seem happy there, and I am not bashing the operation. It seems like a fairly well run and professional company. I just wasn't going to buy a job and settle for the mediocre pay. There are, for a fact, Navajo pilots making more than Bearskin pays.

Any news on if the new deal is a decent improvement?

[Jimmybuffet]

So how much does a first year Navajo cojo make? How much does the first year Navajo capt make? Just curious.....

[bobcaygeon]

When industry benchmarks for contracts and competition are Georgian, CMA, Wasaya, jazz, Encore, Porter, Calm Air you don't get a lot of leverage.

Still above the competition with decent working rules and no grievances with the company in years.

I just bought a decent house in Tbay for 220k and can be in a boat or snow machine in 20 minutes while others are still waiting for the employee parking lot bus at T1. I like it....

[fish4life]

You should take Calm Air off your list, most CPT's there are between $120-170 000 so I'd say they set a damn good benchmark.

[goingnowherefast]

Let me put it this way. In my first year flying a Navajo, I am $6000 further ahead that I would have been if I had been working for Bearskin. Year 2 will widen that gap by another $15 000. Bearskin captain pay is slightly higher than MOST Navajo captain jobs pay, but it takes a long time to make up for the difference.

I was making 12% more comparing Navajo FO to Bearskin FO, then 5% less comparing Navajo captain to Bearskin captain. Upgrading 2+ years quicker means substantial difference in overall pay. Plus the M-PIC opens doors that aren't available to a 2 year Bearskin FO.

Bobcaygeon's situation sounds wonderful. The price of admission was worth it for him. However it's just not worth it for me. From the silence about the new deal, I am getting the impression that it is much the same as the old one. Therefore, I personally, am still better off flying a Navajo.

As with almost every discussion about WAWCON, it varies from person to person.

[springlocked]

I personally, am still better off flying a Navajo.

-- one can justify anything but to compare working under 703 to 704 (at least until the FDT is amended) you don't care much for scheduled time off and live with the phone ringing at anytime of the night or day -- you will eventually lean that there is more to it than money but a whole package which money is just part of it. You have to ask yourself where does navaho command time put you -- that's correct, in the right seat of a metro --

[Maynard]

Bearskin captain pay is slightly higher than MOST Navajo captain jobs pay, but it takes a long time to make up for the difference.

How many days off do you get? do you have travel privileges to go anywhere on your days off? how long are your days? Pension? Benefits?

Upgrading 2+ years quicker means substantial difference in overall pay.

1 year would be substantial? Not likely....

Plus the M-PIC opens doors that aren't available to a 2 year Bearskin FO.

get with the times, no one gives a rats ass about MPIC anymore....sad but true. More 1 year FO's have left here in the past year to go to encore, jazz and the like, than captains would have 5 years ago. Also a reason for the bond, no one gives a sh*t about working somewhere, its just a step to get to the big shiny jet.

As someone else said, if your sole interest is Pay, then I'm sorry but your not going to make a mint as an fo at the bear.........or jazz, or encore, or CMA, or georgian, or wasaya, or perimeter, or.....list goes on....
I make more at the bear as a line pilot, than a training captain makes at Encore. And I'm not even in the middle of the list. Everyone on the top half make 75-100k a year. Not bad for a Metro Driver who doesn't have to bust his ass up north in shitty working conditions....

[indieadventurer]

Maynard, could you post the new capt and f.o. pay scales? I'll assume it's still 80 hr/month for blocking.

[goingnowherefast]

All I've said is that my pay package in the mid-term is better where I currently work as compared to Bearskin's old deal.
M-PIC may not matter to Jazz, but it certainly doesn't hurt. Plus, not everybody suffers from shiny jet syndrome.

You are jumping to wild generalizations about the 703 world with having no idea about my actual schedule and lifestyle. Not every Navajo operator is the scum of the industry. My phone has yet to ring outside bank hours, and I'm home every night having a drink with my wife.

I respect your personal choice to work for Bearskin. Please respect my personal choice not to.

Now this is supposed to be a thread about Bearskin's new deal, not a 703 bash fest. Can somebody please do as indieadventurer just asked and post the new conditions of the contract? Who knows, I might like the terms.

[JayVee]

Looks pretty good to me.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Maynard, I know you love the Bear, and that's great, it really is....but that 10K guys have to pay up front (you know, to "buy" the job) would pay for a bunch of trips on the airlines. I know you coughed up 10K, and it appears to be the only reason to continue to do so? No reason to admit you're stupid (the Bear, not you) if you continue to be so?
There are other issues that keep the Bear on my personal "no fly" list. Another time.
Illya

[DanWEC]

I wasn't a fan of their up front bond, on principle. I didn't see why I should get a loan in my name affecting my credit, etc. Now, I do absolutely see the necessity of a retention agreement, it makes no difference to me as I wouldn't jump ship anyways, but if you do have a retention contract and I get a fantastic offer somewhere else sooner than expected, I could accept it in good conscience knowing I'm not screwing over my employer by taking care of my pro-rated training. A bond, in my mind, actually gives you more options and keeps everyone happy, but paying up front to train yourself is silly.

Anyhow, 75-100k is more than a training captain makes at Encore? Really?

[Illya Kuryakin]

DanWEC...so, you'd say you "need" a training bond? Your word is not enough then? Interesting.
Illya

[DanWEC]

Do you mean my word personally? If so, you should read more carefully, as you have understood completely backwards.

it makes no difference to me as I wouldn't jump ship anyways

I'll explain again. I get from a business standpoint why a bond is in place, that much is simple, but it didn't start because of guys like me, it's for guys that will jump at the first chance for something better. Therefore it doesn't make a difference to me, who grew up respecting employers and will stick around anyways.
But, as an eternal optimist I look on the positive side- if you do get bonded, it can function as an option to leave early by paying for it and making good with your employer, as opposed to not leaving out of basic respect and principle.

[goingnowherefast]

Does the new contract still have the up-front bond? What about pay scale, GDOs, schedule? Anything?

We have an entire thread dedicated to the new "5 year deal". Yet, we are continuing to talk about the old contract. All we know is that JayVee thinks it looks good, but won't say why.

Looks pretty good to me.

[Maynard]

There are other issues that keep the Bear on my personal "no fly" list. Another time.
Illya

Is now a good time? I'm just curious what your "issues" are? Maybe I should stop putting my wife and kids on the planes if you have concerns I should know about.