Buying Plane in Canada and flying it home - steps? Contract?

[DonaldDuck]

greetings! I've decided that I want to do my PPL on my own plane!!

I will likely buy a Cessna 172 in Canada (ontario or quebec) somewhere.

I have already googled and searched forum and didn't see a step by step of how it works.

What kind of contract do we sign ? (can it be a normal bill of sale with basic info - price, plane serial #, buyer / seller info?)

How do I do a Lien search?

Taxes - My understanding is that after I buy it, I contact the Federal Tax office to arrange for payment of taxes.

Flying it home - my friend is a flight instructor so he will fly it home for me.

Insurance - If we bought the plane on a Saturday , could we fly it home that day on the previous owner's insurance? (Assuming we paid and signed contract that day)?? Can I fly it home if I have not officially transferred the registration?

Or do I need my own insurance first (even though I don't have a license….) so that my friend can fly it home?

Does anybody have a good Contract for buying a plane?

Excited to start flying!!

[dirtdr]

Good for you. Buying your own plane is the cheapest way to get your license (unless something bad breaks). If I were to do it again, I would have gone this route. It can be intimidating if you know nothing about planes yet. make sure to get someone you trust to help you with the purchase if your aviation experience is limited.

The sales contract can be as simple as a bill of sale including sellers/buyers name, aircraft manufacturer, model, registration, serial number. Make sure you can trace ownership back to last person or corporation that it is registered to (if not currently registered to seller)

I cant answer anything about lein searches or taxes in Ontario.

Insurance will be your biggest hurdle. You will have to get insurance in your name with the instructor named on the policy. some policys will allow something like "any licensed pilot under 75 years of age with more than 250 hours total time and current on make/model within 90 days". You can get insurance in your name for training. If training through a FTU, they will probably want to be included as additional insured on your policy. find out all the details from the instructor and or FTU before getting your policy. usually once you have a policy in place they will charge you $50 to $100 for every change you make to it.

You may be able to work out a deal with the seller to ferry the plane for you and keep it on his insurance until delivered. such an arrangement can be noted as a condition of sale on the "contract" with him.

As for registration, there should be a transfer paper on the current registration. Once you fill that out, you have 90 days of temporary registration.

The COPA site has a simple example of an airplane bill of sale

[dirtdr]

oops double post

[Posthumane]

While I did pretty much all my PPL training at an FTU, I bought my airplane before I was actually licensed, and here's what I did.

My friend is a flight instructor and his brother is an AME. My friend drove with me to see a few planes around the province. He asked his brother to come out to one or two that were close to where he lived to get a cursory look. Once we found the one that was good to go, I made arrangements with the owner for the sale in the following week. I arranged a time with an AMO at my home airport for a pre-purchase inspection and arranged with the owner to fly the aircraft down on that day. I also had him email me copies of the last few pages of each look book for the aircraft and any STC paperwork so the AME could have a look before hand. After the pre-purchase inspection revealed a few things that I wasn't aware of, we re-negotiated the price. Once that was settled we filled out the bill of sale (stadard one from COPA I think), went to the bank, and I got him a certified cheque for the agreed amount.

The insurance was arranged through Air1 the same day. Although I was able to get this in one day, I would suggest starting the process earlier since time ended up being pretty tight. My instructor and I were both listed on the policy. Temporary registration is handled by filling out a temp registration card that is attached to the current registration, and as mentioned, is good for 90 days. In that time you send the application to change registration (on the back of the current registration) to TC, along with $110, and you should get it back well before the 90 days is up.

My instructor, the previous owner, and I then piled into the plane and we flew him back to his home airport. Since this was all done in Alberta, I didn't pay any PST/HST and GST is not charged on used vehicles. I didn't do a lien search, which is a bit of a risk, and in hindsight probably would have been prudent.

[DonaldDuck]

okay cool! thanks for the info - sounds pretty straightforward

I will check into insurance now

[JasonE]

We did the same, purchased a plane prior to being able to fly it! Had the current owner ferry it for us 500km, it worked out well because they had friends to visit locally. You will always find things unexpected when a different AME looks at it for pre-purchase. Never use the one that does the regular maintenance. If the annual is within a few months, you might as well work that into the pre-buy.

Lien search is a bit of a pain, and handled differently by each province. You can actually have a lien registered against the plane in more than one province! You'd have to pay to search them all to be safe, but likely only need to do the one it is currently (or previously) registered. Here's a link to TC and the various provinces for searching: https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... d-1186.htm I think it cost me $20 to do it online and the form was not user friendly. You also have to search the EXACT name listed on the ownership.

There are lots of planes I've seen for sale for a LONG time...Some for 2 years or longer. Look at many, and keep looking. Avionics can greatly effect the value of a plane as well. We have 2 radios which can be useful. We leave one on 121.5 when not being used.

You can search the registry here: http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/C ... x?lang=eng

You can search for A/D's here: http://wwwapps3.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ ... .asp?rand=

One last thing - if it has a 406ELT you will need to re-register it here: https://www.cbr-rcb.ca/cbr/presentation ... /index.php NO ONE tells you about this.

[DonaldDuck]

Thanks Jason - great info!! I have already creeped the registry

called insurance.. COPA got very good rates and as easy as the click of a mouse and some credit card info

the looks almost easier than buying a car

[DonaldDuck]

on the Canadian Civil Aircraft Registry website I notice sometimes there are time gaps - what does that usually mean?

example:

Cert. of Registration Date updated 2012-04-20 New Owner's name

Cancel C of R - Date updated 2012-02-01 OLD OWNER


Does that mean the Old owner sent info to Transport Canada to cancel his registration? and then the new Owner only registered plane 2 months later?

Also seeing many planes where the records go back a few years or a few decades and then nothing - When there is missing info at the start does that mean the plane is an import from States? Or just that record keeping sometimes patchy for these 60s and 70s planes ?

[Bede]

Congrats. A couple things:
1) A bill of sale transfer's title. A contract of sale sets the terms and conditions of the sale. They are completely different. I can send you a blank contract of sale if you need one. Send me a PM with your email address.
2) Ensure you get a pre-purchase inspection from your own AME not the seller's AME. There are a lot of planes for sale "with fresh annual" which are great until one year in when you need to do your own annual and your AME finds lots of things wrong with it.
3) Be very wary of an airplane which hasn't been flown much. I'd rather have a 10000 trainer flown 500 hrs/yr than a 1500 "cream puff" which last flew a year ago.

[DonaldDuck]

Thanks Bede! In my case I will be paying straight cash on the spot for any plane I buy so a Bill of sale will be my likely choice (although PM sent, I am curious to see this contract of sale

good call on the independant AME inspection…. one seller was very enthusiastic about his AME telling me about the plane etc…

i've heard that too.. better to have a plane that's in use than a mothballed 'hangar queen' that my have some surprises from sitting