Owner Maintenance - Hot or Not?!

[DonaldDuck]

I'm looking at older cessnas (172s & 152s) and I see a few that are in the "owner maintenance" non-certified category

From my understanding one 'advantage' is you can obviously do your own maintanence per schedule, and sign your own annuals meaning lower costs in theory.

Disadvantages include not being able to fly to USA, and possible hit to resale value as buyer's are sketched out about the condition of the plane.

I'm thinking that with the thousands of $$$ I save not paying AME for the maintenance I can do myself, the plane will actually be safer since i will have more money to pre-emptively replace parts and keep it top notch

What's involved in transferring a plane INTO and OUT of the owner maintenance category? Is it easy to do? TC website says reversing it can be costly - can you not just get an AME to annual the plane again and bring it back to 'certified' status?

Any thoughts or experience with this would be helpful

[photofly]

Do you have the tools, the knowledge, the space and the time to do the, er, thousands of dollars of maintenance you're otherwise going to have to pay an AME for?

Owner-maintenance means you don't need an AME to sign a release; it doesn't permit you to do work to a lesser standard, or use the wrong tools, or unapproved techniques, or cut corners.

can you not just get an AME to annual the plane again and bring it back to certified status

No, you absolutely can't. The process is intended, more or less, to be "one way".

[LousyFisherman]

Do you have the tools, the knowledge, the space and the time to do the, er, thousands of dollars of maintenance you're otherwise going to have to pay an AME for?

Snip.....

Whether or not you have the tools and knowledge knowing an AME who is willing to work on an owner maintained aircraft is an extremely useful aid, if not an essential one.

IMHO
LF

[AirFrame]

What's involved in transferring a plane INTO and OUT of the owner maintenance category? Is it easy to do? TC website says reversing it can be costly - can you not just get an AME to annual the plane again and bring it back to 'certified' status?

INTO is relatively easy. Apply, stamp an X next to the serial number on the engine and airframe data plates, show proof (photos) to TC confirming you've done it, pay a fee, and they may or may not ask to review the logs. There's more, but it's really just a series of hoops to jump through, not difficult provided your aircraft is already on the approved list.

OUT of should be though of as impossible, because TC doesn't want planes going both ways. They will hold you to the letter of the regulations, which will make it cheaper to just go buy another plane before you get the OM aircraft fully inspected by the appropriate AME that can confirm that it does indeed meet it's original type certificate. I haven't a clue what you'd have to do to the data plates on the engine/airframe... You can't "un-stamp" an X.

[crazyaviator]

My aeronca was bought in the owner maint category, it was in DEPLOREABLE condition !!!!! Because of a few small mods, like going to a cessna 172 gascolator, I am happy to keep it in the category. As an AME, The plane will be in equivalent or better than C of A standards and with proper paperwork, this will not affect resale value. If you are going to work with an AME in the process of owner maint, be respectful and generous. Remember you are taking away some of his income and also restricting his/her ability to care for your complete aircraft. ( example: you want an AME to do a mag change, but you do all other annual items,,,the AME does see things on the A/C that he may feel are unacceptable but his signature is still in the logbook, howbeit only for the mag work)

[Heliian]

Your resale value will always be bottom dollar even if you're the best mechanic in the world.

The original intent of OM was for aircraft that didn't have available services or existing manufacturer. Putting a perfectly good plane into OM is a huge waste IMO especially with the elementary work and servicing covering the basics if you want to pretend to be an aircraft mechanic.

[DonaldDuck]

some interesting info - thanks guys! lower resale and tough to sell sounds like a real problem...

I don't really see it as taking work and income away from an AME though.. If I buy a plane and bring it to my home airfield, and then occasionally ask the local AME to help me out, while doing a lot of my own repairs, I am actually putting more money in his pocket than if I had never brought the plane to him in the first place.

Also - grey area, what about doing some of your own maintenance / repairs and then still having regular Annuals with AME? (although I guess he would notice some of the new parts …etc… and have to sign off on them?)

[crazyaviator]

Your resale value will always be bottom dollar even if you're the best mechanic in the world.

The original intent of OM was for aircraft that didn't have available services or existing manufacturer. Putting a perfectly good plane into OM is a huge waste IMO especially with the elementary work and servicing covering the basics if you want to pretend to be an aircraft mechanic.

Amateurbuilt A/C can and do fetch a good dollar. Look at the resale prices for a well equipped RV A/C as compared to an old bagged out C-172. The owner maint. category is simular to the amateurbuilt category.

The main reason for the owner maintained category is for A/C that are no longer supported by the factory and/or are not in use as a commercial A/C. As an AME, I prefer working on customers certified A/C because it is supported by the factory and there is a KNOWN minimum standard of airworthiness. If the plane is my own, I can go either way. NO AME likes to work on a piece of crap and be forced to use tunnel vision, or be asked to sign an annual when the owner has worked on/ installed unapproved parts between annuals. If the customers A/C has Airworthiness related defects and is not rectified on the annual, the snags are entered in the logbooks and copies are made for the ensuing court hearings

[JasonE]

I would never buy an O-M airplane. Who know's what level of skill it has been maintained to. I think all the O-M planes out there are far overpriced, in fact I've seen some for sale since I bought mine 18 months ago.

Now if i had some kind of vintage plane that I never planned on selling or flying in the US, I would consider it. However I would assume resale value of $0.

Lastly, flight schools will not allow you to operate a private O-M aircraft for training purposes.

[PilotDAR]

OM should not be thought of as an escape from "proper" maintenance, it's an alternative method to keep an aircraft airworthy. It is certainly not an easy way to make a non conforming (modified) aircraft. I put my flying boat into OM, as it had no other regulatory path ahead of it. It brought tears to my eyes to have to stamp "X's" into a 100 hour C/S prop and Lycoming O-360. I petitioned TC to allow me to keep the engine and prop certified, and only OM the airframe, but they would not go for it. (flawed thinking on their part).

I maintain it exactly as I do my other aircraft which is certified, and to remain so for a while yet (though is also OM eligible). The only difference is that I sign for the work which I do. An owner can certainly (and in many cases should) still have an AME/AMO perform the maintenance to as close as possible "original" standard, and then sign for the work themselves. If you're not interested in maintaining the aircraft to as close as possible to the original standard, you're fooling yourself gong into the OM category, and dilute its credibility.

I have petitioned the FAA to allow my aircraft into the US, and the answer was "no". But, I know that to be a 98% "no", not 100% "no". There are back doors to that, I just have not forced one open yet. There will come a time, and the Canadian OM owners should be uniting themselves to the FAA on this. If Canada should welcome non certified US aircraft, they should welcome ours. There is a battle to be fought here, I just have not got around to it yet...

[DonaldDuck]

OM should not be thought of as an escape from "proper" maintenance, it's an alternative method to keep an aircraft airworthy.

well said! i'm new to this game but I agree with you (although it sounds like a lot of OM planes fall well below the bar….

[Blakey]

Around our airport we refer to it as "Homer Maintenance"! Some are maintained to an excellent standard - some are not.

[DonaldDuck]

haha nice image

i'm willing to bet in some cases though that an Owner will do a better job (than a rushed mechanic) if they have mechanical ability, correct knowledge, and take their time.

[CreatingLift]

I know an owner who's planes are impeccably clean and in seemingly perfect shape.

But he's a bad person!

[PilotDAR]

Allow me to quote myself, as this nuance seems to be overlooked in the discussion:

An owner can certainly (and in many cases should) still have an AME/AMO perform the maintenance to as close as possible "original" standard, and then sign for the work themselves.

[DonutHole]

You're going to replace the seals in your oleo.

What is the first thing you do?

[PilotDAR]

You're going to replace the seals in your oleo.

What is the first thing you do?

Refer to the up to date maintenance manual for the aircraft!

[DonaldDuck]

I know an owner who's planes are impeccably clean and in seemingly perfect shape.

But he's a bad person!

haha

[DonutHole]

You're going to replace the seals in your oleo.

What is the first thing you do?

Refer to the up to date maintenance manual for the aircraft!

I always throw that question out there when people bring up om.

You answered it correctly (as I would expect)

If a guy says blow off the nitrogen before unpinning the torque link I know he's dangerous.

[Blakey]

I know an owner who's planes are impeccably clean and in seemingly perfect shape.

But he's a bad person!

They do appear to be in excellent shape. NONE are in OM though!

[NotDirty!]

You're going to replace the seals in your oleo.

What is the first thing you do?

...I grab the bat, I don't use my 'gat, just a Louisville Slugger, then I take it by the nape of the neck and slit the jugular!

[DonutHole]

That bat does not look to be an approved part, and I need to see the certificate of calibration

[Scudrunner703]

I would never buy an O-M airplane. Who know's what level of skill it has been maintained to. I think all the O-M planes out there are far overpriced, in fact I've seen some for sale since I bought mine 18 months ago.

Now if i had some kind of vintage plane that I never planned on selling or flying in the US, I would consider it. However I would assume resale value of $0.

Lastly, flight schools will not allow you to operate a private O-M aircraft for training purposes.

I rebuilt a damaged damaged 172. Converted to a lycoming. Installed a float kit. Obtained my commercial on it. Training is allowed as long as it's yours or a family member. Put it on floats and sold it for $75g.

The owner/pilot can sign the maintenance release. If an ame works on it he or she doesn't have to sign it. You can.

[photofly]

Where did we pick up the meme that training is forbidden on an OM aircraft?

[JasonE]

I was told that by 2 flight schools when I was early in my training and looking to buy. Perhaps it is a policy rather than rule...