Going rate for a Twin Otter AME?

[Meecka]

Hey guys,

The big heads on the top of the pile are doing some Job mapping here at work, and my manager is wondering how we stack up with the rest of the industry pay wise. He thinks we're underpaid. To give you reference I make $70K doing crew chief duties on a Twin Otter. How's that compare with the rest of the industry I wonder? PM if you want.

[conehead]

Under their brand-new Collective Agreement, an AME at Air Canada makes about $100,000. No Twin Otters there, though.

[Meecka]

Jezebel! Wow, that's pretty nice pay. The night shifts wouldn't be worth it though for me.

[conehead]

You probably enjoy a better lifestyle, and have more fun as well.

[Pat Richard]

How many a/c and people are you responsible for?

If just an AME, with experience, good work ethics, in today's world I think $70G is okay with the day shift. Crew chief would be dependent on what the responsibilities are but north of that somewhat.
The day shift part would keep me personally from asking for a huge raise, but it also comes down to if one is getting ahead on what they're making. $70G-$100G a year is common pay area for most trades.

[Meecka]

Pat I agree. I'm not complaining, at all. When I started where I am now, my pay instantly went up by $14k from what I was being paid at the previous job. I've got a good gig going here. My supervisor just wanted to get some feelers out to see what the industry's like. The problem we have is that they have generalized our classification, so we have folks that do work on the aircraft, with no responsibility when it comes to said aircraft, making more than those of us signing off on their work in the end. I'm not talking apprentices.

[conehead]

As a Crew Chief, I think you are under-paid.

[longjon]

Are the AME's doing the work more experienced than you and negotiated a better pay? Perhaps they should be issues an ACA and do releases. If you are the only ACA then you should be paid more to do the release. I don't think you can ask what -6 guys are getting paid but what are M1 with ACA privileges getting.

[Meecka]

Are the AME's doing the work more experienced than you and negotiated a better pay? Perhaps they should be issues an ACA and do releases. If you are the only ACA then you should be paid more to do the release. I don't think you can ask what -6 guys are getting paid but what are M1 with ACA privileges getting.

They aren't AME's. I am ACA'd on the aircraft, and am the aircraft's crew chief.

Let's narrow the criteria then; What are ACA'd M1/ M2 AME's getting?

Folks don't missunderstand. I'm not bitching. Just doing a bit of research. I got 'er good and know it. Money isn't everything as they say.

[longjon]

So non AME's working on the machine earning more than you doing the sign offs. Certainly a different set up then most.
I think the rate for M1,M2 varies a lot across the country , Northern guys make more etc so I'm not sure you'll find a satisfactory answer. Why not ask for the same as the unlicensed guys.

[Meecka]

That apparently is the plan.

[Pat Richard]

Apprentices making more than a ACA'd AME signing out the work+crewchiefing? Yeah, thats a little out of whack, regardless of how experienced they are. Their classification is still apprentice in TC's eyes.

If you don't have much twin otter time, I'd want parity with the apprentices because of your license/ACA/crewchief. I really think you should be above them because however much experience they have they can't even sign for a DI.

You can do that and the work.

[crazyaviator]

Meecha, having followed your postings ( no, im not stalking you lol ) I think you should get your experience on type, Show the boss that ACA'd employees DO make more than unlicenced folks working on A/C, and let them know you are not looking for more pay at this time though. If this gig goes south in the future,,, STICK like glue to your guns and dont let the industry drag you back down to a low wage!!! Being in aviation this long, you are head and toe above most folks who make $80,000.00 in other industries !! Im rootin for ya !

[Meecka]

Ok lads, first off: thanks to those of you who responded. Much appreciated, as it gave my supervisor an idea of what the real world is making.

Second: I'm not new to Twin Otters, I've been working on them off and on my entire career (short 14 or so years as its been), as well as several other varieties of dehav "rodents". So ya, I've got experience on type, hence the crew chief position. The unlicensed folk working on the aircraft are not apprentices, or maintenance staff at all. They are instrumentation folks (a bit like avionics, but not quite), all are very capable professionals, doing somewhat specialized work. What they don't do is sign off on their work. Once all is done, ultimately the responsibility is mine to check, and certify their installations on the aircraft I am responsible for. The belief is that I, and the other crew chiefs for other aircraft are not being paid on par with industry. Personally, I think we are in the middle of the range. Not severely underpaid, but we could do a bit better. That said, I know for a fact that we have a far better quality of life than many others in the biz, and I'm not complaining one bit. This was an excercise to get a feel for where we are sitting compared to other folk doing similar work. NOT by any means me gripping about shit pay. I've had shit paying jobs in this business, this ain't one of them.

[Pat Richard]

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

I'd say parity at this point.

[cgzro]

Don't you guys have gov't pension plan there at NRC? If so that's worth a lot in the long run compared to somebody that has to save it up themselves. It takes a lot of cash stashed away to make 70% of 70k for the 30 years.. million and change if you had to save it yourself.

[Stumper]

I would say from current experience that the wage is definitely low for a twin otter aca, never mind a crew chief. Pilots make far more then fo's despite the fact they both take turns taking off and landng the same plane. That reason is responsibility. You at very least should be at industry average and above in wages of everyone's work that you certify.

That said, day shift in This business is hard to find and does hold value.

[oldncold]

WELL fresh veggies in the south up 23 percent , this winter. It wouldn't surprise me a bit that 50 percent in off road places. Housing in most parts of the country up 12 percent. Gas for the pick up truck snow machine is down except in bc and nwo , where the politicians continue to tax the hell out of any body that does have a decent job to give it to ... but that's a whole other thread.


Try this walk across the hall and ask your senior dhc-6 captain that isn't the cp. like your line training captain what he makes. you should be in the same bracket assuming the following: a) years of service b) he/she is year around full time, like yourself.

To help you out I ran the bank of Canada inflation calculator
In 1969 if your ole man or maybe granddad grossed 1000 a month gross as mine did in 1969 as experienced heli engineer = 869 net then you need 85k a year gross. In order to have the same buying power as then in 1969 . Which today is about 61k a year net or 5500 month take home pay. depending on the province . The biggest inflationary pressure on incomes in the last 40 years has been insatiable government borrowing and debt>> and that is a whole other thread too