Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
Idiocy? Fix stupid? You seem to think that Gilles is protecting Canadian pilots. But he accidentally exposed the truth in a thread he started last year. Keep in mind, Gilles knows what is going on at his own company.mbav8r wrote:I don't think Gilles is going to dignify your ignorant post with any type of response, that being said somebody has to respond to such idiocy!
Thing is, I don't ever remember Gilles saying he was doing it to protect all Canadians, just Canadian pilots. I never once read anything about him being against seasonal farm workers or anywhere that a real need could be legitimately identified. He was always against HOW, Sunwing was bending and even sometimes outright breaking the law(CARs) and how it was being allowed to carry on despite being brought to light.
If someone came to me with indisputable evidence that his wife was working on behalf of Sunwing to bring in foreign pilots, I would have even more respect for him, for fighting the fight despite the possible ramifications to his wife's career and if you can't see that, well what can I say, you can't fix stupid I guess!
I am not sure why you STILL keep bringing this inaccurate statement up. I can say with 100% accuracy that multiple times through various threads that it has been indicated that you do NOT need to be able to speak French to work for Air Transat. Not sure why you keep indicating otherwise and that it is a sole reason for people not getting interviewed/hired. There are many Anglos at Air Transat that I know personally.Dh8Classic wrote:
Later in the thread, there was more than one response from posters who had applied or knew qualified pilots who had applied for the exact position but got no interview. How could this be? So I asked the obvious question to those posters which was, "are you bilingual?". They were not. And we had the answer to the original question and what I have posted earlier. Gilles mysteriously disappeared from that thread as well.
Defending Canadian pilots? Well, yes. A select group of Canadian pilots as directly stated in their hiring ad. The restriction that eliminates 70% of us.
Sunwing doesn't do that. The TFW's have allowed them to expand profitably and they have created a huge amount of jobs potentially available for all of us if experience requirements are met(and the usual hiring hoops to go through).
Yes, and the DEC jobs were given away to the wet lease pilots (both foreign and domestic).tbaylx wrote: Its was about seniority not bilingualism.
I would hate to make a ridiculous assumption. But the evidence is 100%.confuzed wrote:I am not sure why you STILL keep bringing this inaccurate statement up. I can say with 100% accuracy that multiple times through various threads that it has been indicated that you do NOT need to be able to speak French to work for Air Transat. Not sure why you keep indicating otherwise and that it is a sole reason for people not getting interviewed/hired. There are many Anglos at Air Transat that I know personally.Dh8Classic wrote:
Later in the thread, there was more than one response from posters who had applied or knew qualified pilots who had applied for the exact position but got no interview. How could this be? So I asked the obvious question to those posters which was, "are you bilingual?". They were not. And we had the answer to the original question and what I have posted earlier. Gilles mysteriously disappeared from that thread as well.
Defending Canadian pilots? Well, yes. A select group of Canadian pilots as directly stated in their hiring ad. The restriction that eliminates 70% of us.
Sunwing doesn't do that. The TFW's have allowed them to expand profitably and they have created a huge amount of jobs potentially available for all of us if experience requirements are met(and the usual hiring hoops to go through).
Please get your facts right before making these ridiculous assumptions.
Your response is actually off topic. The MEC intervening to stop the hiring is a separate issue. Gilles started a thread saying ""I heard a rumour stating that when Air Transat put out an ad for Seasonal B737 Pilots, including Captains, that no B737 rated Captains applied. Can this be true ?"tbaylx wrote:It's also untrue. I applied, well qualified and bilingual, no call.
As I understand it no one got called, the ad was posted before transat MEC and the company had agreed on temporary DEC, so no one was ever even interviewed. Its was about seniority not bilingualism.
Dh8Classic wrote:I would hate to make a ridiculous assumption. But the evidence is 100%.confuzed wrote:I am not sure why you STILL keep bringing this inaccurate statement up. I can say with 100% accuracy that multiple times through various threads that it has been indicated that you do NOT need to be able to speak French to work for Air Transat. Not sure why you keep indicating otherwise and that it is a sole reason for people not getting interviewed/hired. There are many Anglos at Air Transat that I know personally.Dh8Classic wrote:
Later in the thread, there was more than one response from posters who had applied or knew qualified pilots who had applied for the exact position but got no interview. How could this be? So I asked the obvious question to those posters which was, "are you bilingual?". They were not. And we had the answer to the original question and what I have posted earlier. Gilles mysteriously disappeared from that thread as well.
Defending Canadian pilots? Well, yes. A select group of Canadian pilots as directly stated in their hiring ad. The restriction that eliminates 70% of us.
Sunwing doesn't do that. The TFW's have allowed them to expand profitably and they have created a huge amount of jobs potentially available for all of us if experience requirements are met(and the usual hiring hoops to go through).
Please get your facts right before making these ridiculous assumptions.
Requirements
-Hold a valid qualification on B737, A310 or A330
-Canadian airline pilot's licence ;
-4,000 hours of flying time;
-Canadian citizen or Permanent Resident status
-In-depth knowledge of Canadian Aviation Regulations and A.I.P. Canada;
-Updated certified logbook;
-Bilingual (French and English);
-Ready to accept an assignment at our base in Toronto with variable work schedules;
-No restrictions for travelling to the U.S. or other countries served by Air Transat;
-Minimum probation period: one year.
Posting ends: Monday August 25th 2014
Now, I don't have a problem with two equally qualified guys available that the job goes to the bilingual guy. That is reasonable. But this ad eliminates at least 60% of us right away. The occasional true anglo at Transat has been mentioned. Perhaps once all the other metro/King Air/etc have been hired? So the metro guy gets the job instead of the Canjet guy which is exactly how it desired. Hey, it worked out well for Gilles, just look at his public profile.
Pilot.
Air Montreal
March 1998 – October 1998 (8 months)
Fairchild SA-226 and SA-227 Captain
Air Transat
October 1998 – Present (17 years 5 months)
Air Transat
Airbus 330 Captain
Airbus 310 Captain
Airbus 310 First Officer
Boeing 757 First Officer
Boeing 737 NG Captain
Perhaps he was the most qualified applicant at the time.
Your response is actually off topic. The MEC intervening to stop the hiring is a separate issue. Gilles started a thread saying ""I heard a rumour stating that when Air Transat put out an ad for Seasonal B737 Pilots, including Captains, that no B737 rated Captains applied. Can this be true ?"tbaylx wrote:It's also untrue. I applied, well qualified and bilingual, no call.
As I understand it no one got called, the ad was posted before transat MEC and the company had agreed on temporary DEC, so no one was ever even interviewed. Its was about seniority not bilingualism.
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 5&t=104735
buzzjob said "A friend of mine applied for a seasonal Capt position and has not heard a thing. He is very experienced and current on the NG... " and later "Not bilingual...shouldn't matter".
newcanjeter said "I was applying for all winter only 737NG jobs posted here. At last count I was at 11 times between TA and SW. My last 737NG ride was October 2013. I have now given up."
Charley said " have a current PPC on the 738 with over 10,000 hours tt and 4000 pic, most of which is on the Boeing. I applied for the Seasonal Captain position that was posted on the Transat website in July, all I got was an automatic email reply acknowledging receipt of my resume. I am Canadian, but not bilingual. Oh, and soon to be unemployed."
767orbust said "Same here. 10,000 plus hrs, 3,000 on NG, anglophone. No reply from AT in July other than receipt of resume. "
So why was Gilles being told, no doubt by someone in the know, that there were no applications by type rated NG guys?
I PERSONALLY know 4 pilots in the pool that can not speak a full sentence in French. Experience ranges from around 3.5-5K hours. Although i think they plan to learn french.Too early to filter all of that out. So, I will ask you this. How do you explain the plethora of English ONLY speaking pilots at Transat? They could put a shuttle mission in to their requirements, but it doesn't mean that is who they will hire. I am sure you are well aware that when a company posts their requirements, it is a list of things they desire. It doesn't mean that if you are missing one or two elements that you are automatically disqualified....if you do well in the interview and have the assets they are looking for then you have a job. It isn't rocket science, but I guess some people just focus on ONE thing as to the reason why they were not interviewed or hired.
It is a good question. I would suspect that the answer to your question is this. Because AT specifically says in their requirements, "Bilingual (French and English)", there are two piles for resumes. Those that meet that requirement and those that don't. That means that about 70% of us don't qualify right from the start. Then, once the first pile of resume's is completely exhausted, which happens on very rare occasion when there is mass hiring, then the second pile gets looked at.confuzed wrote: Too early to filter all of that out. So, I will ask you this. How do you explain the plethora of English ONLY speaking pilots at Transat? They could put a shuttle mission in to their requirements, but it doesn't mean that is who they will hire. I am sure you are well aware that when a company posts their requirements, it is a list of things they desire. It doesn't mean that if you are missing one or two elements that you are automatically disqualified....if you do well in the interview and have the assets they are looking for then you have a job. It isn't rocket science, but I guess some people just focus on ONE thing as to the reason why they were not interviewed or hired.
DH8-Caustic: While I disagree with pretty much everything you ever post, in this case you are not wrong. There is definitely a preference at TS for hiring people who speak French. They WILL offer an interview to somebody less qualified than you if they are bilingual and you are not. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.Dh8Classic wrote:It is a good question. I would suspect that the answer to your question is this. Because AT specifically says in their requirements, "Bilingual (French and English)", there are two piles for resumes. Those that meet that requirement and those that don't. That means that about 70% of us don't qualify right from the start. Then, once the first pile of resume's is completely exhausted, which happens on very rare occasion when there is mass hiring, then the second pile gets looked at.confuzed wrote: Too early to filter all of that out. So, I will ask you this. How do you explain the plethora of English ONLY speaking pilots at Transat? They could put a shuttle mission in to their requirements, but it doesn't mean that is who they will hire. I am sure you are well aware that when a company posts their requirements, it is a list of things they desire. It doesn't mean that if you are missing one or two elements that you are automatically disqualified....if you do well in the interview and have the assets they are looking for then you have a job. It isn't rocket science, but I guess some people just focus on ONE thing as to the reason why they were not interviewed or hired.
Seeing as this has happened on rare occasion, it explains your question. But for most of the time, I suspect that most of us on this forum don't meet the most desired requirement which is not previous jet/international/glass cockpit time seen at most similar carriers.
That is why I have been so happy about Sunwing. It has been able to expand massively and hire so many of the guys that would be in pile #2 at the other airline. The TFW thing in reality allowed them to profitably do their massive hiring of the rest of us. Of course it has upset some at the other carrier that saw their advancement slowed down. But for the rest of us, who see the same thing in the federal government hiring policy, we know that "Bilingual (French and English)" means that we already have one big strike against us before we even walk through the door, if we ever get that far.
touchéTakeoff OK wrote: Get off your lazy ass and learn something outside of your comfort zone instead of whining about it to a world that, ultimately, doesn't give a sh*t about your woes.
How are the SW loads?aerosexual wrote:
I'm curious how everybody is doing this winter. Generally mild weather, a weak Canadian dollar and uncertain economy have cooled the market I believe. Combine that with over-capacity and I don't think anybody is making a lot of money this winter flying passengers down south.
Well said. My biggest regret is not learning french in Uni.Takeoff OK wrote:
Get off your lazy ass and learn something outside of your comfort zone instead of whining about it to a world that, ultimately, doesn't give a sh*t about your woes.
Takeoff OK wrote:DH8-Caustic: While I disagree with pretty much everything you ever post, in this case you are not wrong. There is definitely a preference at TS for hiring people who speak French. They WILL offer an interview to somebody less qualified than you if they are bilingual and you are not. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.Dh8Classic wrote:It is a good question. I would suspect that the answer to your question is this. Because AT specifically says in their requirements, "Bilingual (French and English)", there are two piles for resumes. Those that meet that requirement and those that don't. That means that about 70% of us don't qualify right from the start. Then, once the first pile of resume's is completely exhausted, which happens on very rare occasion when there is mass hiring, then the second pile gets looked at.confuzed wrote: Too early to filter all of that out. So, I will ask you this. How do you explain the plethora of English ONLY speaking pilots at Transat? They could put a shuttle mission in to their requirements, but it doesn't mean that is who they will hire. I am sure you are well aware that when a company posts their requirements, it is a list of things they desire. It doesn't mean that if you are missing one or two elements that you are automatically disqualified....if you do well in the interview and have the assets they are looking for then you have a job. It isn't rocket science, but I guess some people just focus on ONE thing as to the reason why they were not interviewed or hired.
Seeing as this has happened on rare occasion, it explains your question. But for most of the time, I suspect that most of us on this forum don't meet the most desired requirement which is not previous jet/international/glass cockpit time seen at most similar carriers.
That is why I have been so happy about Sunwing. It has been able to expand massively and hire so many of the guys that would be in pile #2 at the other airline. The TFW thing in reality allowed them to profitably do their massive hiring of the rest of us. Of course it has upset some at the other carrier that saw their advancement slowed down. But for the rest of us, who see the same thing in the federal government hiring policy, we know that "Bilingual (French and English)" means that we already have one big strike against us before we even walk through the door, if we ever get that far.
But let me ask you this: If you're an up-and-comer in this Canadian industry, or even a long-time sufferer just trying to get ahead, and you know for a fact that speaking French will be an asset when trying to get hired at any of the big three -- AC, Westjet, or Transat (plus Sunwing now) -- why would you not take at least one French class during your studies or off time to give yourself that advantage? As far as I'm concerned, if you can put two French sentences together without making an ass of yourself, then you have the right to put "bilingual" on your resume. If, however, you cannot show the initiative to add a language skill to your toolbox in this highly competitive industry, then the fault is yours -- and yours alone -- when you don't get called.
No initiative = no interview.
In Western Europe, the average citizen speaks at least two or three languages. In every other country in the world where English is not the native tongue, they MUST learn English to be an international pilot. Yet over here, you just bitch and moan about not getting an interview because of your laziness or lack of vision as to what the future ended up requiring of you.
You do realize, I hope, that every single Francophone/Quebecois pilot at Air Transat, many of whom grew up speaking no English whatsoever, had to learn English to be able to work at TS. I mean, you get that right?
Get off your lazy ass and learn something outside of your comfort zone instead of whining about it to a world that, ultimately, doesn't give a sh*t about your woes.
8 C reg wet leases heading to Europe this summer. 4 to Warsaw, 1 to Lyon, 1 to Birmingham, 1 to Belfast and 1 to Dublin.rudder wrote:How are the SW loads?aerosexual wrote:
I'm curious how everybody is doing this winter. Generally mild weather, a weak Canadian dollar and uncertain economy have cooled the market I believe. Combine that with over-capacity and I don't think anybody is making a lot of money this winter flying passengers down south.
How many C reg wet leases on deployment to Europe for summer 2016?
Loads seem mostly good if a little softer than previous years. That's just my impression anyways and I could be wrong. There are 8 C-Reg wet leases going to Europe this summer.rudder wrote:How are the SW loads?
How many C reg wet leases on deployment to Europe for summer 2016?
You supposedly disagree with everything I have ever said, yet what I said in my last post covers virtually everything I have said on the subject. But now that I have backed up what I said with evidence, you have no choice but to agree with me. I was right the entire time. I suppose that you somehow seem to think that by making a change to my name, that it furthers your argument but it doesn't.Takeoff OK wrote:DH8-Caustic: While I disagree with pretty much everything you ever post, in this case you are not wrong. There is definitely a preference at TS for hiring people who speak French. They WILL offer an interview to somebody less qualified than you if they are bilingual and you are not. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.Dh8Classic wrote:It is a good question. I would suspect that the answer to your question is this. Because AT specifically says in their requirements, "Bilingual (French and English)", there are two piles for resumes. Those that meet that requirement and those that don't. That means that about 70% of us don't qualify right from the start. Then, once the first pile of resume's is completely exhausted, which happens on very rare occasion when there is mass hiring, then the second pile gets looked at.confuzed wrote: Too early to filter all of that out. So, I will ask you this. How do you explain the plethora of English ONLY speaking pilots at Transat? They could put a shuttle mission in to their requirements, but it doesn't mean that is who they will hire. I am sure you are well aware that when a company posts their requirements, it is a list of things they desire. It doesn't mean that if you are missing one or two elements that you are automatically disqualified....if you do well in the interview and have the assets they are looking for then you have a job. It isn't rocket science, but I guess some people just focus on ONE thing as to the reason why they were not interviewed or hired.
Seeing as this has happened on rare occasion, it explains your question. But for most of the time, I suspect that most of us on this forum don't meet the most desired requirement which is not previous jet/international/glass cockpit time seen at most similar carriers.
That is why I have been so happy about Sunwing. It has been able to expand massively and hire so many of the guys that would be in pile #2 at the other airline. The TFW thing in reality allowed them to profitably do their massive hiring of the rest of us. Of course it has upset some at the other carrier that saw their advancement slowed down. But for the rest of us, who see the same thing in the federal government hiring policy, we know that "Bilingual (French and English)" means that we already have one big strike against us before we even walk through the door, if we ever get that far.
As a matter of fact, I am bilingual. But the wrong languages. As if "one french lesson" is somehow going to make anybody fluent enough to come anywhere close to being proficient in the language. Do you actually believe what you post? Putting two sentences together is hardly going to be reasonable to be anywhere near proficient in the language as you seem to feel it gives you the right to do. On the first interview question, it will probably have determined your fate for lying on your resume.Takeoff OK wrote:
But let me ask you this: If you're an up-and-comer in this Canadian industry, or even a long-time sufferer just trying to get ahead, and you know for a fact that speaking French will be an asset when trying to get hired at any of the big three -- AC, Westjet, or Transat (plus Sunwing now) -- why would you not take at least one French class during your studies or off time to give yourself that advantage? As far as I'm concerned, if you can put two French sentences together without making an ass of yourself, then you have the right to put "bilingual" on your resume. If, however, you cannot show the initiative to add a language skill to your toolbox in this highly competitive industry, then the fault is yours -- and yours alone -- when you don't get called.
No initiative = no interview.
In Western Europe, the average citizen speaks at least two or three languages. In every other country in the world where English is not the native tongue, they MUST learn English to be an international pilot. Yet over here, you just bitch and moan about not getting an interview because of your laziness or lack of vision as to what the future ended up requiring of you.
You do realize, I hope, that every single Francophone/Quebecois pilot at Air Transat, many of whom grew up speaking no English whatsoever, had to learn English to be able to work at TS. I mean, you get that right?
Get off your lazy ass and learn something outside of your comfort zone instead of whining about it to a world that, ultimately, doesn't give a sh*t about your woes.
As you said in the first paragraph, "they MUST learn English to be an international pilot". That is an actual requirement. There are plenty of new Canadians that are pilots and have learned english as a second language. Why should they have to learn a third. There is a reason of course and it is to restrict the pilots to whom they really want. I mean, you get that right?Takeoff OK wrote: No initiative = no interview.
In Western Europe, the average citizen speaks at least two or three languages. In every other country in the world where English is not the native tongue, they MUST learn English to be an international pilot. Yet over here, you just bitch and moan about not getting an interview because of your laziness or lack of vision as to what the future ended up requiring of you.
You do realize, I hope, that every single Francophone/Quebecois pilot at Air Transat, many of whom grew up speaking no English whatsoever, had to learn English to be able to work at TS. I mean, you get that right?
Takeoff OK wrote: Get off your lazy ass and learn something outside of your comfort zone instead of whining about it to a world that, ultimately, doesn't give a sh*t about your woes.
It wasn't me who started all these threads about Sunwing. But, I realize that AT is not going to change, meanwhile SW has come along and expanded like crazy providing so many opportunities for the unfairly excluded pilots through the use of TFW to rapidly build its base. It has dramatically slowed down things at AT in terms of movement. So what do I say to the AT whiners that come on this board complaining about it to the excluded pilots? The same two quotes the two guys posted above: "don't give a sh*t about your woes" and "no one really cares anyways".parallel60 wrote:Well said, lots of people just love whining about things eh. Shut your mouth, get off your computer and do something about it. Or don't. Noone really cares anyways.
Good for AT. But Gilles wants all the expansion. He ain't gonna get it.FL320 wrote: Some of us here were at Sunwing before moving to Air Transat. Both airlines are great, the B737 flying at the Orange is exactly the same as at the Blue. Yes Sunwing has expanded like crazy but unlike what you think, there is A LOT of movment at Air Transat too! We are adding more A330 and more B737, we ve been hiring continuously for the last 2 years (lots of anglophone!). And lots of guys went from an initial training on the B737 to an initial on the A330 within a year and they fly both aircrafts.
Feel free to list the many reasons so others can understand. If there is no language requirement, explain the requirements below. I guess I am just narrow-minded, have misinterpreted, and need to wake up and read the requirements more clearly.FL320 wrote: You talk like if Sunwing was the garbage of the excluded pilots from AT, you're really narrow minded. If some of the guys didn't get the job it's a matter of attitude and not language, or if they didn't get a call it's probably because the HR thought their past experience wouldn't fit (and there are many reasons you obviously can't understand). Please wake up and stop trolling!
French and English are both official languages in Canada, right? What's wrong in writing this requirement? Do you also complain about the job postings on the Government's website? You should look at the major airlines in Europe, even if you have a European passport you must speak english + the official language of the country. This is written on their requirements; what's wrong with Air Transat on this one? if you want the job then do your best to meet the requirements, if you're too lazy then look elsewhere and stop complainingFeel free to list the many reasons so others can understand. If there is no language requirement, explain the requirements below. I guess I am just narrow-minded, have misinterpreted, and need to wake up and read the requirements more clearly.
"Requirements
-Hold a valid qualification on B737, A310 or A330
-Canadian airline pilot's licence ;
-4,000 hours of flying time;
-Canadian citizen or Permanent Resident status
-In-depth knowledge of Canadian Aviation Regulations and A.I.P. Canada;
-Updated certified logbook;
-Bilingual (French and English);
-Ready to accept an assignment at our base in Toronto with variable work schedules;
-No restrictions for travelling to the U.S. or other countries served by Air Transat;
-Minimum probation period: one year."
Very good point? Of course I complain about the discrimmination in federal government hiring. Did you know that there is a major push to make it mandatory that all supreme court judges are bilingual. Nothing more than an attempt to restrict our laws to the decisions of 25% of the population instead of cross-country.FL320 wrote:French and English are both official languages in Canada, right? What's wrong in writing this requirement? Do you also complain about the job postings on the Government's website?Feel free to list the many reasons so others can understand. If there is no language requirement, explain the requirements below. I guess I am just narrow-minded, have misinterpreted, and need to wake up and read the requirements more clearly.
"Requirements
-Hold a valid qualification on B737, A310 or A330
-Canadian airline pilot's licence ;
-4,000 hours of flying time;
-Canadian citizen or Permanent Resident status
-In-depth knowledge of Canadian Aviation Regulations and A.I.P. Canada;
-Updated certified logbook;
-Bilingual (French and English);
-Ready to accept an assignment at our base in Toronto with variable work schedules;
-No restrictions for travelling to the U.S. or other countries served by Air Transat;
-Minimum probation period: one year."
I really don't care about the requirements for European airlines. This is not Europe.FL320 wrote:You should look at the major airlines in Europe, even if you have a European passport you must speak english + the official language of the country.
As I said earlier, It wasn't me who started all these threads about Sunwing. But, I realize that AT is not going to change, meanwhile SW has come along and expanded like crazy providing so many opportunities for the unfairly excluded pilots through the use of TFW to rapidly build its base. It has dramatically slowed down things at AT in terms of movement. So what do I say to the AT whiners that come on this board complaining about it to the excluded pilots? The same two quotes the two guys posted above: "don't give a sh*t about your woes" and "no one really cares anyways".FL320 wrote:what's wrong with Air Transat on this one? if you want the job then do your best to meet the requirements, if you're too lazy then look elsewhere and stop complaining
Don't forget to highlight what the airline says are their requirements, "-Bilingual (French and English)". They said it not me.mbav8r wrote:It says requirements, not minimum requirements.
I'm willing to bet that some of the anglophone pilots hired didn't have a valid 737,310 or 330 rating either but it sounds like your mind is made up.
Just so I understand all your "proof" is an ad and a few pilots who posted on line that they didn't get called, good thing you're not a lawyer(I hope).
"Requirements
-Hold a valid qualification on B737, A310 or A330
-Canadian airline pilot's licence ;
-4,000 hours of flying time;
-Canadian citizen or Permanent Resident status
-In-depth knowledge of Canadian Aviation Regulations and A.I.P. Canada;
-Updated certified logbook;
-Bilingual (French and English);
-Ready to accept an assignment at our base in Toronto with variable work schedules;
-No restrictions for travelling to the U.S. or other countries served by Air Transat;
-Minimum probation period: one year."
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