Airline pilots don't know how to fly

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redlaser
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Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by redlaser »

Often times I have been asked to give a check ride to an Airline pilot from this country or elsewhere ,when it comes to small aircraft which they haven't flown for several years I have found that they can't even do a proper landing, One Airline pilot told me that for the most part it's the computer that flies the airplane, not him, So much of his flying skills have been lost. So it brings me to another point which is Why? Acquire 1500 hundred hours on a small aircraft or twin aircraft if those skill's will be lost once a pilot flies larger aircraft which are computer controlled. Nowadays an airline pilot could be trained directly in a Flight simulator , forget the private, forget the commercial, go directly to the Aircraft one is going to fly. Wouldn't this make more sense.
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photofly
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by photofly »

Well, they do: see the Multi-Crew Pilot Licence course.

You've started the same trolling thread three or four times now, what's the purpose?
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Old fella »

photofly wrote:Well, they do: see the Multi-Crew Pilot Licence course.

You've started the same trolling thread three or four times now, what's the purpose?
Could be an individual who gets off on shitting on airline pilots and perhaps said individual was turned down at airline flying or was accepted but got turfed out at some time. In my time there was a small segment in the flying world who at any opportunity during conversation at any point commented on airline pilots who probably couldn't do the jobs these individual pilots were doing. Full disclosure I am not an airline pilot and never was.
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fish4life
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by fish4life »

With those licenses you end up with a situation like the Asiana 777 in SFO, pilots who learnt how to fly then became airline pilots do things like hand fly a safe ditching into the Hudson big difference
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Rockie »

redlaser wrote:Often times I have been asked to give a check ride to an Airline pilot from this country or elsewhere ,when it comes to small aircraft which they haven't flown for several years I have found that they can't even do a proper landing.
Hedley...is that you?
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by goingnowherefast »

A 172 flies different than a King Air, or a Q400, or a 777. I wouldn't except a 5000hr 172 pilot to do a very good job at flying a 777. I wouldn't except a 777 pilot to be very good at flying a 172.

That being said, experience gained when flying a 172, king air, Q400 all make the 777 guy a better pilot.
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Rockie »

FWIW I've been flying for 40 years on everything from light singles to CF-18's to A340's, but if you put me in a C172 right now I'd be a danger to everyone without a serious check out.

And yes, as it happens I do know how to fly.
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by cgzro »

This is why insurance companies want to know time in type in last 90 days. Lets face it if you are used to sitting 20ft above the ground and suddenly need to fly with your ass a few feet off the ground it takes a few hours to re-acclimate. Buddy of mine flies 747s and its always fun to tease about flair hights etc in old tail draggers but Im pretty certain the stick rudder skills can be relearned in a few hrs or so, but the inverse.. the judgment and skills to move a big fast machine from a to b is not a 10hour excercise.

In an ideal world AC and others would keep a bunch of GA fun toys around for low cost use by the pilots but I guess its too expensive.
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Meatservo »

I'm an airline pilot. I bet I can fly as well as you can.
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Nark »

I like the sentiment of keeping skills sharp, but airlines removing olives, to save weight isn't going to fund a flying club.

Also, no where in any manuals does it prohibit flying without automation.

Some choose to stay sharp, some are lazy.
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Rockie »

It's unnecessary so they wouldn't spend a nickel on it. One thing they do though which is nice is make the simulators available (when they're not scheduled for use) to pilots to practice in.
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Rowdy »

I know many airline pilots that could outfly GA guys all day any day in almost any machine they were put into. I've also seen the opposite end of the spectrum with most falling somewhere in the middle.

This post does nothing but amuse me
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by redlaser »

Rockey is the only one to admit flying skills can be lost, and check rides are necessary if you haven't flown a particular time of aircraft to a while, So back to the original Q, which is why do 1500 hrs on a Cessna to get a ATPL licence,
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Meatservo »

Nark wrote: Also, no where in any manuals does it prohibit flying without automation.

Some choose to stay sharp, some are lazy.
I agree with this
Nark wrote:..., but airlines removing olives, to save weight isn't going to fund a flying club.
Do you mean, like from the martinis? :wink:
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Meatservo »

redlaser wrote:Rockey is the only one to admit flying skills can be lost, and check rides are necessary if you haven't flown a particular time of aircraft to a while, So back to the original Q, which is why do 1500 hrs on a Cessna to get a ATPL licence,
Well, maybe you need to ponder this:

If an airline pilot got into your little Cessna and had to fly it from point "A" to point "B", he could probably figure it out... Even if the landing wasn't all that terrific, because his "muscle memory" is geared toward flying very heavy, large and high-performance aircraft. For the same reason, no matter how good you are at flying your Cessna, I'm not going to lend you my radio-controlled model aeroplane.

If You, on the other hand, got into a 737 and tried to do some circuits, if you could get it into the air at all, you would crash, burn, and die.

Therefore your question, and the point you are trying to make, is invalid.


Being able to drive a plane is about 5% of the actual knowledge and experience required in order to consistently and safely operate an aeroplane in all weathers and seasons. So you know how to steer a little aeroplane accurately. Congratulations- you've mastered a skill that many 17-year-old Air Cadets manage to pick up over the course of a summer. I think it takes an incredible amount of nerve to come on here and make a pronouncement like "Airline Pilots can't fly" just because you've seen a couple of people have a bit of trouble wafting to earth in a little fart-cart when they are used to pounding in a heavy, fast-moving transport for a living. The reason you have to have 1500 hours to get an ATPL is because an ATPL is the highest category of pilot's license. There are many, many jobs that require one to have an ATPL, and there are a lot of those jobs that require a person to be very good indeed at flying an aeroplane.

If you ask me, the requirements are too low. I think the ATPL should have requirements for tailwheel, seaplane, radial engine and heavy aircraft on there as well. You think 1500 hours of small-plane experience is too much. I say it's not enough.
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Nark »

Meatservo wrote:
Nark wrote: Also, no where in any manuals does it prohibit flying without automation.

Some choose to stay sharp, some are lazy.
I agree with this
Nark wrote:..., but airlines removing olives, to save weight isn't going to fund a flying club.
Do you mean, like from the martinis? :wink:
Specifically from the pilots martini's...

And of course:
http://youtu.be/eC5_W_YsPKg
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Meatservo »

What an all-around assholey thread this is. You might as well go on a commercial shipping forum and cock off about how you've noticed that ocean-going ship's masters seem pretty terrible at canoe-ing or sailing about in prams. What a dick.
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by squash junky »

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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by DanWEC »

Airline pilots don't know how to fly
I think that the hours to obtain a ATPL licence should be cut in half, or 750 hrs. TC requires 1500 hours which is ridiculous, Airline type aircraft are flown mostly by computers nowadays, Pilots for the most part are computer programmers with little or no handling of the aircraft
Instructors all know for a fact that most of the time it is the student who is actually flying the airplane, but the instructor gets to log as PIC, A lot of commercial pilots get an Instructor rating just to build time towards their ATPL licence, but in actual fact they sit and watch their students fly the aircraft
All I can garner is that you don't think you should be building time as an instructor doing these checkrides for airline pilots who can't fly, towards an ATPL that should or shouldn't (depending on your mood) be attainable at 750 hours, of, instructing? WHAT??

You're making my head hurt. I'm going to make a nice dirty Belvedere martini- with extra olives.
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by pdw »

redlaser wrote:So back to the original Q, which is why do 1500 hrs on a Cessna to get a ATPL licence,
Hi Redlaser, maybe ask the Gimli glider guys ? They were crediting the Captain's experience gliding on weekends for doing the famous sideslip.

Also, believe it or not they're still using the same Cessna over at the club for 40 years now ... so my answer is: caus its good for business.
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by AirMail »

Thanks redlaser. Your thread has given me cancer
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Meatservo »

About 20 years ago I was at an airshow, and I took a CF-18 pilot from my class in college up for a rip in a Cessna 120. You know- those little tailwheel, fabric-winged springy-geared 80 hp jobs that instructors are terrified of- anyway, on the way in to land, my buddy started to clutch at his harness and he looked like he was terrified- after all his training, he wasn't used to going so slowly! I offered to let him have a go, and he replied that he would prefer to go have some beers.

Naturally, what I took away from all this is that I must be a waaaay better pilot than my buddy, obviously the CF-18 is nowhere near the handful my Cessna 120 is. Probably because it has all those computers.

Pull your head out of your ass.
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by rxl »

This has been one of my all time favourite threads.
You tell'im boys!!!!
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by delta1 »

this is all a load of crap.....move along.
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by timel »

Rockie wrote:
redlaser wrote:Often times I have been asked to give a check ride to an Airline pilot from this country or elsewhere ,when it comes to small aircraft which they haven't flown for several years I have found that they can't even do a proper landing.
Hedley...is that you?

Haha I was thinking the same, the Col is having some fun.


I went back in a 172 after 4 years, the first final approach I thought I was stalling, but after 30 minutes it all came back pretty fast.
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