Airline pilots don't know how to fly

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AirMail
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by AirMail »

Thanks redlaser. Your thread has given me cancer
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Meatservo
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Meatservo »

About 20 years ago I was at an airshow, and I took a CF-18 pilot from my class in college up for a rip in a Cessna 120. You know- those little tailwheel, fabric-winged springy-geared 80 hp jobs that instructors are terrified of- anyway, on the way in to land, my buddy started to clutch at his harness and he looked like he was terrified- after all his training, he wasn't used to going so slowly! I offered to let him have a go, and he replied that he would prefer to go have some beers.

Naturally, what I took away from all this is that I must be a waaaay better pilot than my buddy, obviously the CF-18 is nowhere near the handful my Cessna 120 is. Probably because it has all those computers.

Pull your head out of your ass.
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by rxl »

This has been one of my all time favourite threads.
You tell'im boys!!!!
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delta1
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by delta1 »

this is all a load of crap.....move along.
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timel
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by timel »

Rockie wrote:
redlaser wrote:Often times I have been asked to give a check ride to an Airline pilot from this country or elsewhere ,when it comes to small aircraft which they haven't flown for several years I have found that they can't even do a proper landing.
Hedley...is that you?

Haha I was thinking the same, the Col is having some fun.


I went back in a 172 after 4 years, the first final approach I thought I was stalling, but after 30 minutes it all came back pretty fast.
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ditar
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by ditar »

This reminds me of last summer. I got a chance to fly a caravan, the very plane that once felt like an extension of my own body and that I confidently flew in and out of all kinds of bush strips. After now being accustomed to flying an airliner, though, I couldn't get myself to put it down anywhere before the 1000 foot markers. Then later I went flying with a friend in his Cherokee, the first light airplane I've been in in an even longer time. I thought we were going to impact the ground 500 feet short of the runway. The sight picture was totally different from what I am now accustomed to. I'm sure it would all have come back to me within a few more hours, but unless one is switching back and forth on a regular basis, I suspect many airline pilots would have a few challenges going back to a 172.
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BTD
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by BTD »

Some skills gained in the bugsmashers will always be valuable. Not sure how many stalls most of us did through our training and possibly instructing. But it is instinct to push forward at slow speed or stall. This applies in airliners too.

Perhaps the air France fellows and the air Asia f.o. Would have benefited from 1500 hrs messing around in a 172.
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Rockie
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Rockie »

Lesson plan 1 - attitudes and movements - applies for every aircraft from an ultralight to a space shuttle. The problem with big sophisticated aircraft is that autoflight systems often work opposite to PAT - APT for the simple reason computers cannot possibly anticipate what you're going to do, and cannot do preemptive actions with the attitude or power. They can only react in response to the previous action commanded by the pilot or FMS. Unfortunately training programs do a poor job of accommodating - or even identifying - the aircraft handling contradictions in the autoflight system.

A simple thing like noting your attitude and power setting periodically during cruise would have saved many lives over the years on the occasions when the computers go stupid (take note pilotless aircraft advocates - computers are stupid). After a short period of time you'll notice it's always the same attitude and power settings for rough categories of flight like high/low and fast/slow. But simple handling stuff like that gets lost unfortunately in the clutter of sophistication.
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by redlaser »

OK, OK, so some of you agree and some of you don't agree that Airline pilots can't fly , and most Airline pilots would agree that if they were asked to fly a small aircraft that they would probably end up damaging the aircraft, Judging from some of the comments I'm sure that some wannabe pilots who never saw the inside of a cockpit put in their two cents, So I say to these wannabe pilots to go and fly their Microsoft flight computer,which brings me to wonder just how many real pilots in the real world comment on this website, Not that there is anything wrong in doing so.
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Meatservo
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Meatservo »

redlaser wrote:OK, OK, so some of you agree and some of you don't agree that Airline pilots can't fly , and most Airline pilots would agree that if they were asked to fly a small aircraft that they would probably end up damaging the aircraft.
No! I don't think anyone agreed with you, and NO airline pilot agreed that if they were asked to fly a small plane they would damage it. What is the matter with you?
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Rockie »

redlaser wrote:OK, OK, so some of you agree and some of you don't agree that Airline pilots can't fly
The only people who would make an absurd blanket statement that "airline pilots" can't fly have never done that job, don't know what they're talking about yet inexplicably harbour an irrational prejudice against them. Ego I guess...

In every human endeavor there are people who are stellar at what they do and some that aren't. Do you condemn all plumbers because one wrecked your pipes?
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by goingnowherefast »

What's being said is that an airline pilot, used to a large multi-engine aircraft, is not current to fly a small single engine aircraft. A little instruction is required to get a multi-engine land pilot current on a single engine land aeroplane. A pilot will need some training when transitioning to an aircraft in which they have no recent relevant experience.

The CARs seem to agree. Go look at CAR 401.02(2) for the Recency Requirements.

The Commercial CARs go even further with the Flight Crew Member Qualifications, 703.88, 704.108 or 705.106

Whether that individual has allowed the use of automation to degrade their stick and rudder skills is irrelevant to their job. Many Cirrus pilots, with their fancy avionics suffer from the same problem, and they're not airline pilots. Even a 172 with a good autopilot can cause stick and rudder skills to degrade
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Chris M
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Chris M »

Meatservo wrote:For the same reason, no matter how good you are at flying your Cessna, I'm not going to lend you my radio-controlled model aeroplane.
But what if my Cessna IS a radio-control plane?

Image
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Rockie
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Rockie »

Hah, I see you left yourself some room to eat under the right wing.
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Chris M
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Chris M »

Bah, that's what the couch is for.

When the wife isn't around...
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Mach7
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Mach7 »

@redlaser

You are the very reason why I try to stay away from these forums....

It makes my blood boil listening to green horns like yourself type out there perception of aviation and Airline Pilots from the VAST experience you must have, (that is sarcasm if you didn't get that).

Most of these posters here have more time and experience at the top of a loop than you have in your entire career.

How do I know this?, because no Pilot of experience would have posted this thread to begin with

You want to see how Airline Pilots can fly? Why don't you come with me one day landing in Torbay (CYYT) with winds gusting to 50 knots to an approach to minimums on a contaminated runway. Approaches like this have to be hand flown as the autopilot cannot remain connected.

Once we get to the gate and you finish cleaning your diaper, then maybe you will have a better perspective and respect of what an experienced Airline Pilot brings to the table.
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Last edited by Mach7 on Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rockie
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Rockie »

Chris M wrote:Bah, that's what the couch is for.

When the wife isn't around...
Ha Ha. I used to know a guy who had his Porche engine sitting on the dining table to work on it. He ate on the couch too...and was single.
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Meatservo
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by Meatservo »

Chris M wrote:
Meatservo wrote:For the same reason, no matter how good you are at flying your Cessna, I'm not going to lend you my radio-controlled model aeroplane.
But what if my Cessna IS a radio-control plane?

Image

Wow, that's AWESOME! How big is it? The flaps even have the corrugated ribs! Mrs. Meatservo would never let me build a model on the table. I'm working on a traditional stick-and-tissue "park flyer" right now but it's way smaller than that.

Back to the original topic: RedLaser is clearly either a trouble-maker, which I think is funny, or he (or she) is an instructor with fewer than 1500 hours, who dreams of making duck-faces in the mirror with a uniform and epaulettes on and taking selfies, who is angry that it's taking so long to get the minimum experience required for an ATPL, because he thinks he's ready for it.

He wants the "status" so bad, he's taken to insulting people who have earned it, and he wishes it were easier! The irony is, when an achievement is "dumbed-down" enough so that impatient, undedicated people can earn it, it no longer means anything! People like Redlaser want to degrade our profession down to their level, so they can claim the status that was earned by their superiors!


It's as if fat, lazy people wanted to petition the army to make being fat&lazy an admission standard, so they can get into the army-and stop being thought of as fat&lazy!!

I have nothing but contempt for people like Redlaser. Unfortunately, people like Redlaser are the reason that low-time primary flight instructors have so much difficulty getting any respect in the real world.
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by MUSKEG »

Redlaser just felt insecure. Just looking for someway to compare dick size. I would bet he's from the " I want it right now" generation.
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Re: Airline pilots don't know how to fly

Post by B208 »

MUSKEG wrote:Redlaser just felt insecure. Just looking for someway to compare dick size. I would bet he's from the " I want it right now" generation.
Nah...he's just throwing sticks in the spokes to hear them break.....
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