Rewriting the IATRA / ATPL for a higher score ?

[Annapurna]

Hi,

I recently wrote a transport exam. I studied hard for this exam utilizing the AIM, FGU, ., You name it.. and unfortunately I got a lower score despite two months of intensive studying.. ( high 70's)

I did gain lots of other knowledge from looking at this stuff that I found I ccan actually use.. I also gained lots of knowledge that was not so useful.. Either way, I was thrown some curveballs ..

A friend of mine did an interview recently and was asked for his/her ATPL scores. The person in question got 90% / 85% respectively. He /she was then asked why the score was not 100% by the panel. The panel then went into a discission about a which Doctor would be best if he/ she were to be operated on. Doctor A with less than 100 percent or doctor B with 100%.

In all honesty, I don't want my score to be an indication of my professionalism as a pilot . I study hard, work hard and take my job seriously. How serious do employers take these scores is it worth rewriting?

Thanks for your input,

Anna

[loopa]

Legally you're not obligated to give anyone any info about your scores. But we all know that approach can always turn off employers.

In my career so far, they were more concerned about my personality and experiences than they were a score on an ATPL exam. Especially when you already have the license.

The real learning occurs when you're gaining experience anyway, so in my opinion - don't worry about your scores. It hasn't been asked for so far in my career. Even WJ didn't ask for it. You'll find that if employers are concerned about your atpl theory, they will have you do an exam anyway as part of the recruitment process.

[xsbank]

I second (or third?) that opinion about scores - really? HR people love this kind of sh*t. It's pass or fail for the license, then let's get on with some learning. The question about scores is just an HR way of getting you to talk. Do some creative thinking to distract them then get on with the interview. The ATPL is just a ticket to entry, then the real learning starts. Wait until you do your first jet type rating...

[JBI]

That's a new one - I have never heard about an operator asking what a person's score on a particular transport exam was. Can you advise which operator asked about the scores? Or, at least which type of operation it was: airline, charter etc.?

I would think re-writing any transport exam that you've already passed would be a waste of time and money (unless previous exams were going to expire). If someone asked me scores on a certain exam my honest answer would be "somewhere above a pass" - not being flippant, but I couldn't tell an exact score. Once you've passed, your score is not something that's worth remembering (in my opinion).

[awitzke]

Virtually every pilot I've ever spoken to about this said more or less same thing. "Pass the test, then forget everything you just learned..." or "A pass is a pass, no one cares what your score is the sticker in your book says ATPL, not ATPL with your exam score in small print."

They don't mean actually forget everything, but you know what I mean. The red tape is gone. The licenses are passed and it's time to learn on the job and in the GS of the company that hires you.

I'm currently studying for my A's and while I'm studying to get the best mark I can possibly get, if I ended up just passing I would take it and move on. Remember just because you've passed the exams doesn't mean you should stop learning.

[ahramin]

This is the first time I have ever heard of an employer asking for TC exam marks. What is stopping a candidate from simply saying 100%? It puts candidates in a position where the employer has no way of detecting a lie, and they are more likely to hire the liers. Basically the worst strategy for hiring people.

If you spent months studying for the SAMRA and SARON and couldn't get 80%, I would have a good look at your study methods and materials, and a hard look at your aviation knowledge and think about whether or not aviation is really for you. The next time you have to study for 2 months it is likely to be for a type rating at an airline and you will need to know your stuff not for a silly exam, but because it's your job.

In any case, I would say rewriting any TC exam is a waste of time and money.

[AvExpress]

Never heard of that and it's absolutely ridiculous that one should ask. If so then you should be able to ask them how well they did on theirs, or their degree, etc. Also why not just say 100 if they want to be nosey and lazy to determine ones qualifications, they can't check unless they ask for it.. which again is beyond what's tolerable.

[nightbird]

In my last airline interview they wanted a copy off all my written test reports. Weird yes, but they can ask for whatever they want during the interview process

[plhought]

F*** 70 = 100 in my books.

These HR people asking about trusting Doctors only getting 90% obviously have no f***ing idea how the medical profession works. It's actually much like aviation.

[digits_]

I get that it is annoying, and once you are at the airline level the written test results shouldn't matter anymore, since you have other experience. But it's not that farfetched. They get thousands of applications, so I'd rather have them use something tangible to make the cut, instead of vague psychological tests.

[PropToFeather]

Depending on how that question was worded, they could have been trying to get you to talk about the test (as in, theory) vs. your real-world flying experience. Personally, that's how I'd have spun it - "I did reasonably well - passed, of course - but I didn't get as high a mark as I wanted. Since then, I've taken stock of the weak areas the test exposed, and worked to shore those up, as well as practically applying the rest of my knowledge. [insert relevant flight "learning" lesson you've actually learned since.]" Bingo! You 1) didn't lie, 2) didn't tell them more than they needed to know, 3) worked in your real-world experience in a question about a TC test. I don't see a downside, unless you start bragging!

[ahramin]

Also if you redo it your letter will show 2nd attempt. Not really going to help you.

[switchflicker]

Has anyone ever re-written a TC exam that they already received a pass mark on?

I'm having trouble seeing the TC office allowing you to write when you will get no (re)certification as a result of the hopefully successful test.

I'm also thinking of PPC candidates that I've tested asking if they could do the exercise over again. My standard response was "no, you've already passed that part, and what if you do worse the next time. Shall I fail you?"

[digits_]

I'm also thinking of PPC candidates that I've tested asking if they could do the exercise over again. My standard response was "no, you've already passed that part, and what if you do worse the next time. Shall I fail you?"

Why would that be an issue ? As far as I know there is no rule against renewing your PPC one day after you have passed your initial one. Weird and a waste of money, probably. But if they fail their renewal, they still have passed the initial one and can thus fly the plane, no ?

[switchflicker]

Maybe some current check pilot could step in here, (A Regulator are you there?) but I think in that scene if you failed the renewal you have demonstrated that you no longer have the skill to hold the certificate. Good food for thought though.

[awitzke]

Maybe some current check pilot could step in here, (A Regulator are you there?) but I think in that scene if you failed the renewal you have demonstrated that you no longer have the skill to hold the certificate. Good food for thought though.

I was under the assumption that if you do a IFR PPC while still holding a valid IFR and fail, you loose your IFR.

[digits_]

Maybe some current check pilot could step in here, (A Regulator are you there?) but I think in that scene if you failed the renewal you have demonstrated that you no longer have the skill to hold the certificate. Good food for thought though.

I was under the assumption that if you do a IFR PPC while still holding a valid IFR and fail, you loose your IFR.

This changed about a year ago. You do not lose your IFR anymore. I do not know if you lose your PPC if it was still valid though. I can't find anything in the regulations about punishments if you fail, only that you need to pass to renew it.

[awitzke]

What if you do an IPC or IFR ride (not PPC, just a ride on a twin or SIM) while still say having 1 month left. And fail. Would you loose the remaining month or no?

Do you have a reference just out of curiosity?

[SuperchargedRS]

Lol,

I'd ask the HR clown until what age did they wet the bed?

How old were they when they lost their virginity?

Frankly I can't even remember what I got on my writtens and I doubt I'd want to work at place that is so clueless to the attributes that make a good pilot.

[digits_]

What if you do an IPC or IFR ride (not PPC, just a ride on a twin or SIM) while still say having 1 month left. And fail. Would you loose the remaining month or no?

Do you have a reference just out of curiosity?

I do not. The only reference I have is this document that clearly states that they can suspend the IFR and your current PPC: https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... al-509.htm

Our ACP however said he is not allowed to do that anymore, it probably has something to do with the fact that instrument ratings don't expire anymore. But unfortunately no reference...

//edit: regarding the failure of a renewal when you have a valid IFR: check page 10 here: https://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca ... L_2014.pdf

You would technically lose the 2 remaining months, but transport has to notify you of the suspension. The examiner is not allowed to suspend it anymore by making a note in your license.

//edit 2: check page 2 of this document: https://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca ... E_CARS.pdf

[C-GKNT]

What if you do an IPC or IFR ride (not PPC, just a ride on a twin or SIM) while still say having 1 month left. And fail. Would you loose the remaining month or no?

Do you have a reference just out of curiosity?

Sorry, not a reference but my understanding is that an IPC is less confrontational (and potentially more instructional) than an IFR ride.

I have not had an IPC yet as I needed a ride for my ATPL application last fall but my examiner told me that on an IPC, if you fail a maneuver, he could instruct you on how to do it properly and have you demonstrate it again. He also told me you could not fail an IPC...you may not pass but that is different than failing. Also, unless there is an accident, Transport Canada no longer really cares (similar to night currency). Nothing is sent to TC when you "pass" an IPC.

Glenn