Annual Cost?

[cap41]

Looking for the hours that are needed to perform a yearly annual on a single engine prop plane, C172/Grumman Cheetah/ cherokee etc.

I know parts etc can cost more. I am just curious the hours of labour if everything goes smoothly. Is it 10? 15? etc. no prop inspection, no pitot/transponder renewal, no ELT re service.

[DonutHole]

It depends on how to deep you go. An annual on a Cessna takes about two days with minor snags. The Grumman takes a bit longer. I would guestimate (and I hate doing this for customers) that doing it alone with no help to bank on 16 hours. That's just for a look. If I have out of phase tasks or need to do an ad search the time can go up by many hours. Typically I do an ad search and it takes about four hours of cawis and auditing logbooks.

[SuperchargedRS]

Mine is a larger Cessna, but two days owner assist, $1k if no snags are found and I bring my own oil and filter.

[photofly]

It's usually two day's work to inspect something like a 172; a day for the engine and a day for the airframe. You can reduce this considerably if you're able, willing and knowledgeable to work with your AME but (as discussed ad nauseam here previously) not all AMEs allow or welcome owner participation. Some do though, if that's your thing.

[PilotDAR]

A very experienced AMO client of mine has an "Inspection time only" quote sheet by type, and I recall that the 172 is 18 hours. I don't know if this covers things like AD searches, I think it's just the inspection itself (which should take that long!).

[SuperchargedRS]

It should be added that inspection time goes down once the mechanic gets to know that plane, a first inspection is always going to be lengthier compared to the subsequent inspections.

Good reason to use your guy whose going to be doing all your annuals for your prebuy, at sellers expense

[photofly]

Why on earth would a seller pay for a prebuy!?

[cgzro]

id use a different mechanic than the one who does the annuals.

[PilotDAR]

Why on earth would a seller pay for a prebuy!?

+1

You want an thorough and objective prebuy inspection, a seller will not willingly pay for that. If they seem willing, be suspicious about the quality of the inspection.

[rigpiggy]

One big selling point is a "fresh annual". I personally don't give a rats @ss,

If buying an airplane, I would have as part of the contract a fresh annual at my ame, I pay for inspection, seller pays for discrepancies. A certain amount say 10k"not all that much" held in escrow until annual is complete within a given timeline, seller gets the amount minus any cost for rectification.

[photofly]

If buying an airplane, I would have as part of the contract a fresh annual at my ame, I pay for inspection, seller pays for discrepancies. A certain amount say 10k"not all that much" held in escrow until annual is complete within a given timeline, seller gets the amount minus any cost for rectification.

You mean you would *ask* the seller for that. And I can hear their laughter from here.

[Broken Slinky]

Why on earth would a seller pay for a prebuy!?

+1

You want an thorough and objective prebuy inspection, a seller will not willingly pay for that. If they seem willing, be suspicious about the quality of the inspection.

+1. The buyer pays for it and uses the found snags, etc... as a bargaining tool for the purchase of the aircraft. I'd be quite leery of a seller insisting on using his own people to do the inspection.

[SuperchargedRS]

If buying an airplane, I would have as part of the contract a fresh annual at my ame, I pay for inspection, seller pays for discrepancies. A certain amount say 10k"not all that much" held in escrow until annual is complete within a given timeline, seller gets the amount minus any cost for rectification.

You mean you would *ask* the seller for that. And I can hear their laughter from here.

I've had sellers pay for a annual, the one with the cash is king, way more people want my money then want your airplane.

Every case is different, but it's the guy with cash who is going to be in the drivers seat if the seller actually wants to sell their plane, not just list it as for sale

[photofly]

I'd pay for a new annual, if selling a plane, but my AME does it. It will be a valid annual inspection and you don't need another one for a year. It's not intended to prove anything about the condition of the aircraft beyond the date it was carried out, and if you don't like that, too bad.

I'm not paying for your pre-purchase inspection, and and I'm not paying your AME to do any repairs on your aircraft after you've bought it. Just as you don't trust my guy to tell you what needs fixing before you buy the plane, I absolutely don't trust your guy to tell me what needs fixing after you buy the plane.

If your pre-purchase inspection - that you pay for - shows up defects that are a) not obvious in plain sight and b) significant, I might get my AME to look it over to see if he agrees with yours. If the defect is real and has a significant effect on the value of the aircraft - we can negotiate a new price. That's it.

[GyvAir]

If your pre-purchase inspection - that you pay for - shows up defects that are a) not obvious in plain sight and b) significant, I might get my AME to look it over to see if he agrees with yours. If the defect is real and has a significant effect on the value of the aircraft - we can negotiate a new price. That's it.

I don't know anyone would want to complicate the deal beyond that. Straight forward. Simple. There are costs of doing business whether you're buying or selling anything. There's always a risk that you'll pay for a pre-buy on an aircraft you don't end up buying. If you can't afford that risk, the future costs of owning an aircraft are going to kill you anyway. If you're paying for a lot of pre-buys, maybe a rethink of how you're initially pre-screening potential aircraft is in order.

[SuperchargedRS]

If your pre-purchase inspection - that you pay for - shows up defects that are a) not obvious in plain sight and b) significant, I might get my AME to look it over to see if he agrees with yours. If the defect is real and has a significant effect on the value of the aircraft - we can negotiate a new price. That's it.

I don't know anyone would want to complicate the deal beyond that. Straight forward. Simple. There are costs of doing business whether you're buying or selling anything. There's always a risk that you'll pay for a pre-buy on an aircraft you don't end up buying. If you can't afford that risk, the future costs of owning an aircraft are going to kill you anyway. If you're paying for a lot of pre-buys, maybe a rethink of how you're initially pre-screening potential aircraft is in order.

The "if you can't afford..." logic will out you in the poor house no matter what.

I am able to afford a nice aircraft because I'm smart with my money and don't make it rain to help someone else sell their plane.

I have no problem spending my money, but if given the option I'll spend yours first.

[photofly]

I have no problem spending my money, but if given the option I'll spend yours first.

I've never liked taking money from other people; I'd rather negotiate a better purchase price, and spend my own money fixing what needs to be fixed. Each to his own.

[SuperchargedRS]

Ideally I'll get a good purchase price and have you address any snags which were not described in the your advertisement.

Thought is, I'm buying what your advertising, we agree on a price, after inspection if it's not matching your description it's on the seller to fix to discount to match our agreed price and said condition.

Don't like it, that's cool, I'll just move on to the next plane on my list.

[photofly]

I suspect you and I would have agreed you should move on a while earlier

[SuperchargedRS]

No doubt. Business is business and I'm not out to make friends, I'm out to get myself into said airframe in the most advantageous position as possible. Buy to sell.

Maybe it's my old car sales experience, but I don't pay retail for anything.

[photofly]

I'm curious though... why would you rather have the vendor fix any defects than do it yourself? The vendor has an interest in doing it as cheaply as possible, and you have an interest in doing it well.

[SuperchargedRS]

It's done to spec, anything other does not meet spec and the sale is off.

As a half intelligent buyer I have my mechanic on site.

Discount to what my guy would charge to make it right, or have your guy do it to my guys standards, or pay my guy to do it, all the same to me

[photofly]

I wonder if we're talking about the same class of airplane? having to pay your mechanic to drive two hours, hang around on site watching my mechanic replace, say, a failing vacuum pump on a Cessna single, and then drive two hours home - seems like a colossal waste of (your) money.

And, for instance, if I'm paying for the vacuum pump to be replaced and my mechanic has a used but serviceable one on the shelf he'll let me have for $50, well, in my book that's good enough for you. Alternatively, I'll give you $200 off the price, which is what installing the used pump would cost me. Wouldn't you rather put the $200 towards your guy buying and installing a new one?

[PilotDAR]

but I don't pay retail for anything.

Sad to hear, there must be disappointed store clerks, gas station attendants and waiters in your wake. Please don't dine at the restaurant my daughter manages, the wait staff there don't like to be shorted on the bills, and certainly appreciate the tips for which they work hard.

For myself, and my work in aviation, everyone pays what I quote for the work, which will be "retail" for all but one or two very big and repeat clients. I have been "tipped" many times, being compensated beyond what I had quoted or expected - as recently as three days ago, and it is those clients who get my services first next time.

Excepting the very rare occasions where a service provider and I agree that the service was not what was committed in the beginning, I enjoy the thought that the people I do business with are pleased with the outcome of our dealings, so they will be there for me next time - even if it is an intended one time purchase. I frequently tip for good service.

Aviation is a small community, and word gets around. I like to thing that the word which gets around about me is that I cheerfully pay fairly for services I agree to accept.....