Encore Direct Entry Captain YYZ

[dialdriver]

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[KK7]

As a heads up, I had heard that they are hoping not need DECs, but are pooling some just in case. Depends on how many FOs want to move from YYC to YYZ for the upgrade and how quickly guys get their time to meet the matrix.

[BE20 Driver]

We need YYZ DEC's. Most of the upgrade candidates are in YYC and don't want to give up any of their days off to commute. With the commuting policy, I assume it wouldn't be easy to go in/out on the same day leaving a backup flight. I don't know though, I haven't tried it.

Most growth in the next year is supposed to be out of the YYZ base. I think someone told me that there were only 2 YYC FO's that met the upgrade matrix who had bids in for YYC Captain spots. I don't know though, I haven't looked at the standing bid.

I haven't looked recently but I believe the post for DEC's was taken down so I assume there were enough applicants to fill the upcoming positions.

[skybaron]

Why choose or wait for Encore as a DEC when AC is hiring?

At this stage of the game, I've been told new hires could expect to transition to the 737 in 6 years.
Then, in 6 years - bend over for that nice paycut as Encore doesn't have a bridged salary agreement with mainline. Apparently they're 2 seperate companies.

Take the paycut once, and continually welcome increased wages for your years served (as it should be) at AC.

Btw - today is the last day for that AC application.

[Duke p]

Why choose or wait for Encore as a DEC when AC is hiring?

At this stage of the game, I've been told new hires could expect to transition to the 737 in 6 years.
Then, in 6 years - bend over for that nice paycut as Encore doesn't have a bridged salary agreement with mainline. Apparently they're 2 seperate companies.

Take the paycut once, and continually welcome increased wages for your years served (as it should be) at AC.

Btw - today is the last day for that AC application.

Exactly. Why flop around Central Canada in a propeller driven bird for the next 6 years, only to go to the bottom of the list as an FO on a small airliner at a different company, then work your way up that list, for the ability to go to the bottom of the Captain pay scale at year zero on the same small airliner, ten years or more after their Encore start date. (I hear the Flight Deck on the 737 is barely larger than a Dash ....that's decades of real cozy..... )

Guys hired at AC today will likely be able to hold left seat C-Series or Rouge Airbus skipper within three to four years on the property. An Encore guy hired today will still likely have 2-3 years left flying Dash before they can even sit right seat at WJ while this happens.

Seven or eight guys just hired here within the last month are 767 FO's. With 100 widebody aircraft on the property within two years, you'll never have to wonder what it would be like to fly a 787 or 777 to exotic destinations.....just bid it. For the young guys, we have near 300 young FA's starting at Rouge within the next four months....another 200+ at mainline....and no "single occupancy" policy in hotel rooms on layovers.....yet. Just sayin'. (be prepared for a serious "harassment policy" training though..... )

WestJet will soon understand the importance of bridging the pay scales. At AC there's no "going back to year zero" pay wise. You bank every year. A year 7 FO goes to year 7 on the Captain scale. Like being and FO??? No penalty, as a 12 year FO goes to a 12 year Captain when they decide top make the move. Even Rouge, which emulates the WestJet system gives "half credit" for years as an FO for a transition to the left seat.....so a year 6 FO at Rouge goes to year 3 Captain there. (If they transfer to Mainline as a skipper....they go at a one to one ratio, so 5 years at Rouge would make you a year 5 Captain Mainline.)

Remember, serious attrition to AC should seriously help the pay bridging issue at Team Teal before you flame me too badly.

DP.

[fish4life]

Just because a guy applies to AC doesn't mean they will get the job.

Also from what I hear jazz might be needing to add some DEC's a few years down the road, I'm not sure where all these companies are going to get all the pilots they need.

Aviation hiring tends to go in 7 ish year cycles and although I hope I'm wrong I've got a bad feeling in the next year it's going to come to a grinding halt again due to some external factor (housing crash).

[fish4life]

As for pay bridging to make a fair comparison you have to look at Jazz to AC to compare apples to apples for Encore to WestJet. Neither carries pay forward although encore keeps a seniority number. That said when comparing mainline to mainline AC definitely has WJ beat there.

A few years ago the thought of DEC jobs onto a Q400 would have been unheard of. It is interesting times and if companies have to start fighting for pilots perhaps the collective agreements will have to be revisited to try attract expats to come back and fill in the experience void.

[Duke p]

I for one hope WJ deals with the pay bridging issue. When one group benefits we all do.

It's not fair to give "no credit" for time as an FO....or time at the feeder for that matter. Being an FO can be considered "quality on the job training"........ like an apprenticeship under the Captain. To give no credit for that apprenticeship period is insanely unfair. They basically get a fully trained skipper, perfectly versed in all WJ proceedures and policies, and years of honing operational skills, at no cost.

Even AC, when they tabled the Rouge concept..... which closely emulates the WJ model for pay, didn't go that far.

DP.

[arctic_slim]

With all this back and forth about which one is better, you have to realize that some people just want to be at either AC or WJ, no matter what shiny equipment, year of service credits or how long you're on what plane. Some want to be at WJ because they prefer it. Some want to be at AC because they prefer it. The pay is not the most important thing and if it's the pay or years of service credits that you're after I feel like you'd be spending your entire career at an airline being miserable because you're always waiting for the next pay scale, or the next seat conversion or the next shiny jet to get on..it's never ending.

For me, I prefer Westjet, no matter what the difference is at AC or what planes they have. I want to be at Westjet and will stay at Westjet. Whenever I get upgraded, or go to mainline it will be awesome, i'm not sitting here counting down the days or seniority numbers . I'm not worried about it because I am enjoying my career and my life.

On the other hand I have friends at AC who say the same, they want to be at AC and are loving their life and their careers and the planes and destinations they get and only want to be at AC.

Both have advantages and disadvantages.

[sstaurus]

Pay bridging issue? You all seem to forget AC has created the exact same problem with the AC Express carriers. And Captain Obvious would also agree it's better to go direct AC mainline, but to those who have applied for years to no avail it's not so easy. At least at WJ you don't have a chance of being PFO'd again.

[Donald]

At least at WJ you don't have a chance of being PFO'd again.

You can certainly wash out of mainline and get returned to encore though.

[goingnowherefast]

A few years ago the thought of DEC jobs onto a Q400 would have been unheard of. It is interesting times and if companies have to start fighting for pilots perhaps the collective agreements will have to be revisited to try attract expats to come back and fill in the experience void.

I wonder when the regional pay will start to go up, like it is south of the border. There's lots of guys in the 703/704 world that don't want to take the pay cut.

[Realitychex]

I guess we'll see what happens to AC's "growth, growth, growth" strategy as fuel slowly climbs north.

For all the "success" of Rouge and the other initiatives, lest anyone forget, AC reported the worst numbers on the continent last quarter. It's a fairly safe bet that pattern will continue over the first half of 2016.

It's not a good idea to base growth and career expectations on the results of one quarter a year.
It's a bit like getting hired at Toys R Us in mid November and being astonished at how busy and profitable the business is in your first month at work, and basing your future plans on said information.

Something to think about when plotting a career. You might want to think about what things look like in 5 years or longer, and what happens when things change.

[Duke p]

I guess we'll see what happens to AC's "growth, growth, growth" strategy as fuel slowly climbs north.

For all the "success" of Rouge and the other initiatives, lest anyone forget, AC reported the worst numbers on the continent last quarter. It's a fairly safe bet that pattern will continue over the first half of 2016.

It's not a good idea to base growth and career expectations on the results of one quarter a year.
It's a bit like getting hired at Toys R Us in mid November and being astonished at how busy and profitable the business is in your first month at work, and basing your future plans on said information.

Something to think about when plotting a career. You might want to think about what things look like in 5 years or longer, and what happens when things change.

Ya we've had some pretty rough quarters that's for sure. Rumours circulating that Captain profit sharing cheques will approach $20,000 each.....due June 30th.

Seriously though.....

That Rouge thing was the worst idea ever....planes are empty all the time.

Thanks for the heads up though........I'll get on the horn to Calin and Ben Smith and tell them they've got it all wrong, and they'd better completely rethink their strategy going forward.....I'm not sure they'll see what you mean right away though, as they're pretty dull...... can I use your "Toys 'r Us" analogy??? Your point would make far more sense, and have much greater "resonance" with them if I did.....me thinks.


DP.

[brooks]

Air Canada may not be very exposed domestically especially out west, but internationally they are risking a lot.

[rudder]

AC will be fine. The revenue stream is diversified. If the economy tanks they will curtail expansion or perhaps even shrink.

What you may also see at AC is a repatriation of some Express flying if the Express carriers cannot staff the small gauge aircraft. Already happening in the US as mainline carriers get back in to 100 seaters. AC is perfectly positioned to add CS100's to the CS300's already ordered.

I wonder what the contingency plan is for WJ if there are sustained demand issues or an ENCORE pilot staffing problem?

[DaveP]

Hi Guys,
I haven't logged in for some time here but the direct entry posting is still indeed active.

We are currently interviewing direct entry WestJet Encore captains (DEC) for courses planned in July and August. (about 10 available DEC positions)

I believe there are 6 or 7 more new Q400 tails scheduled for delivery in 2016 fueling this crazy growth plus flow to WestJet was 100 percent for out April and May courses.

https://career4.successfactors.com/sfca ... t&username

The WestJet 737 posting remains closed as we will pull any future need from our current pooled people. Remaining classes for 2016 are June 6, July 11, August1, August 22nd, Sept 12th and October 3.

Cheers!
Dave

[bruced007]

joining now as DEC will take approximately how long to flow over to WJ
Whats the current payscale like for DEC
Whats the avg block and typical sched for WJ Encore

Thanks

[CharlieKilo]

Just curious what an updated income would look like for this position? Pay is starting around 68K with per diems on top of that? I've looked around the other threads and can't seem to find an updated figure for final take home pay on average as Captain.

And how is commuting looking for this position these days. Say from the west, such as YWG or YYC?
Thanks

PM if you prefer.

[Jimmy2]

Does anyone know who gets flow to WestJet mainline first? An F/O that started at Encore a couple years ago or a DEC that started today? Thanks