Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

[saminbc]

Well, so yesterday I got a mail that I didn't make it past the final round. C'est la vie. At least I know now, so I am ready to move on. Might give it a go in May again, but lets see.

Jeff, if you got through, I wish you all the best. It's a dream come true, there's no other way to put it.

Sam

[chobs]

Sorry to hear that Sam.

Also a good lesson for other applicants though to not spend money on a physical before you actually get an offer.

[TheSteamingPile]

Sorry to hear that Sam.

Also a good lesson for other applicants though to not spend money on a physical before you actually get an offer.

Agreed. There is absolutely no need to have your medical completed until you have been offered a course.

[TheSealRimRady]

How long does it take to get your Class 2 Medical results? I have my appointment next week, but I start course in a little over a month.

[s1yx]

How long does it take to get your Class 2 Medical results? I have my appointment next week, but I start course in a little over a month.

It took me about 4 weeks after the appointment to receive the certificate in the mail, which I was told was average for the first time receiving a license, and that renewals can be processed more quickly. I don't see anything wrong with getting your medical in advance of an offer, there are worse things to drop $150 bucks on than a overall health checkup, and if you get a late course offer - less than 4 weeks (which 2-3 people in class ended up getting) - you could be in trouble. If they give you a late offer they will give you some leeway on not having the certificate on the first day of class, however if there is a problem getting a medical, or if you need to go for more advanced testing to be qualified as fit then you're rolling the dice. I took care of my medical in advance of a course offer, and even if I hadn't gotten one I wouldn't be remorseful over doing so.

[jc1428]

Well, so yesterday I got a mail that I didn't make it past the final round. C'est la vie. At least I know now, so I am ready to move on. Might give it a go in May again, but lets see.

Jeff, if you got through, I wish you all the best. It's a dream come true, there's no other way to put it.

Sam

Sam, terrible news man. I meant to message you a few days ago but something happened with my account and was trying to get the moderators to help me out, but instead just ended up creating a new account. Anyways, At least now you know. No more incessantly checking the Take Charge website every few hours. Best of luck whatever you choose to do.

I have a bit better news. I think I passed the second interview? However, Instead of receiving a green light on my Take Charge account, I received an email from YVR ACC Human Resources inviting me to a simulation exercise. They're calling it "the second portion of the second interview" and they forwarded me a document called "ATS Employee Referral Program Simulation Pre-Study Package" and suggested I "review" it prior to the Sim. It's pretty basic stuff, like I'm talking how to pronounce numbers from 1 through 10, phonetic alphabet, super basic headings compass, 2 examples of aircraft identifiers (ACA and WSJ), and a phraseology example. A few posts ago I suggested there was no way they could evaluate a sim prior to any classroom training - but I'm starting to think otherwise.

Anyone ever heard of this before?

[TheSteamingPile]

Yeah, there's absolutely no reason to get the medical before you're offered a course. Nav Canada wants it done before you start your generic, true, but if you don't they won't drop you from the course due to a late medical.

Now, if you have 4 weeks from offer acceptance to start of course and haven't even started the medical process by the time the course starts, you might have an issue.

One of my classmates didn't get their medical until the start of specialty specific with no ramifications.

[saminbc]

Well I wanted to get my medicals done because I actually have a few things that take additional time. For one, I am pre-diabetic (I am not on medication, so it is not a concern, but the doctor said that he would like me to get a report from an endocrinologist that everything was fine) and that report can take a couple of months (getting an appointment with a specialist is not easy).

Also I got a health checkup out of it, so I am not lamenting the $160 or whatever I am out. I would have liked to get it in hand - once you hit 40, suddenly things dont work as well as they used to.. haha.

Well best of luck guys. I can reapply in May, so I might just try that, no harm to do so eh?

[jc1428]

Just wanted to provide an update. I had the simulation exercise [part 2 of the 2nd interview] a couple days ago and wanted to provide some insight as it sounded like they're thinking of adding this hurdle to the application process across the board.

It was more or less what I was expected. They had sent a "review package" a few weeks before the scheduled sim date, however, it wasn't much help to actually get you ready. I guess it helps if you don't know the phonetic alphabet or understand how a headings compass work - but other than that it's 3 pages of super basic stuff. Anyways, the afternoon started in the entrance area of the ACC where I found myself waiting with one other fellow. We struck up conversation and began to wonder where the others were, thinking there was no way there was just the 2 of us. Sure enough at 1300hrs an HR person came to get us and led us to a conference room where there were 4 trainers and the regional training manager waiting for us. After a 15 minute meet and greet they told us that the trainers were there not only to help us through the simulation but also there to review us as potential candidates. Each trainer was from a different IFR area and they mentioned they were all very short staffed and were looking to help hand pick candidates they felt were best suited for their designated areas.. I could be wrong on the names - but I believe one was from 'Vancouver High'; where they deal with the Pacific coastline traffic. One was from 'Vancouver East' where it's dealing more with the interior portion of the province. One was 'Vancouver Terminal' the 40km radius surrounding YVR, they are the closest contact to YVR tower dealing with departures and arrivals; and I can't recall the 4th.

Once we got settled we moved right in to the instruction portion. We learned some basic phraseology of how to control the aircraft. Things like making first contact with aircraft entering your FIR, how to slow down, speed up, turn, descend and how to transfer off to tower upon final approach. The goal of the sim was to guide the aircraft on a pre-planned flight path and ensure it's on the correct altitude and speed before transferring off to tower control so it could land at a fictional airport. While this wasn't all that challenging dealing with one aircraft at a time and a phraseology cheat sheet in front of you. It got more challenging when they started adding more and more aircrafts. The trainers were great giving pointers and what to be constantly looking for. After about 30 minutes of playing around they pulled us off the sim and told us to go for a 15 minute break and then to return. Upon which we learnt we'd now be doing another 30 minute run without the cheat sheet and without any guidance. Again, started off pretty easy but then they started increasing the traffic and it got a bit fun. Once completed they basically told us we wouldn't find out our results until April 1st. At which point our Take Charge accounts will either show a successful second interview or unsuccessful.

As mentioned in a previous post, I was skeptical that they could use such an exercise as a way to test new candidates but now feel quite the opposite. I feel as though what I learnt about the job and what they learnt about me far outweighs anything they got from my results of the 5 hours assessment session. Finally, it was interesting speaking with the trainers about possible training changes, they have all heard the rumors as well and while they can't say for certain, they believe a) training will paid - unk if that includes generic or not; and b) they'll be waving the tuition fees. They also said it may be as early as the April class to see these changes - whatever they may be.

[JonYTS]

I've had an interest in FSS for 15 years. I have visited my local FSS site multiple times in the last 10+ years and listened to various FSS sites throughout northern ONtario. I have contemplated trying out VFR to get a spot south of the "49th parallel" but prefer FSS. IFR interests me too, but I wouldn't be able to handle the stress.

Long story short, thanks for the info in this thread. I also thank the individuals with NavCanada who have responded to me in the last few years.

I also did a test in Ottawa, Sept 2003, and tried the new Online aptitude test a few years ago, didn't pass that.

Like many of you, I am trying out an iphone aptitude test over and over again, trying to figure out my strengths and weaknesses.

[TheSealRimRady]

Pro tip for any of you who haven't done the online test yet. Go to the wonderlic website and try out their sample aptitude/cognitive tests. I think you'll find that they're quite similar to the one you'll get

[4nANT]

Hi everyone,

Thank you for all the info you guys posted. I just got my green light after the first interview. Just wondering if anyone has been placed on courses for YVR yet this year.

Thanks!

[4nANT]

Thanks JC for the insight into the Sim.

Just wondering if you hear any feedback and if you would know if there would be a course starting soon in YVR.

Thanks again.

[AspiringATC]

Hello everyone. Hopefully this forum thread is not too dead and there will be someone to talk to on here. I'm applying to Nav Canada from CYYC, in hopes to go down the VFR path. Visited a tower and an IFR center. I can't see myself working in a place with nearly no windows and where you don't have a view of planes, so VFR path is definitely what I want to take. If this career doesn't work, I'll most likely become a bush pilot because of my love of aviation, not really interested in working for the bigger airlines because of the lack of adventure, but I may have to someday. Anyways I'm not there yet ahah

I've already passed my CAT test and I've heard that it can take nearly a year to get booked for the in-person assessment session. If anyone has any pointers as to what I should maybe do before the test and what the test delves into, or redirect me to the correct thread, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Registration/Application: April 14, 2016
Cognitive Ability Test/Results: April 15, 2016
Assessment Session Invitation [e-mail]: TBD

I'll keep posting updates of my progress on here.

[4nANT]

Hello everyone. Hopefully this forum thread is not too dead and there will be someone to talk to on here. I'm applying to Nav Canada from CYYC, in hopes to go down the VFR path. Visited a tower and an IFR center. I can't see myself working in a place with nearly no windows and where you don't have a view of planes, so VFR path is definitely what I want to take. If this career doesn't work, I'll most likely become a bush pilot because of my love of aviation, not really interested in working for the bigger airlines because of the lack of adventure, but I may have to someday. Anyways I'm not there yet ahah

I've already passed my CAT test and I've heard that it can take nearly a year to get booked for the in-person assessment session. If anyone has any pointers as to what I should maybe do before the test and what the test delves into, or redirect me to the correct thread, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Registration/Application: April 14, 2016
Cognitive Ability Test/Results: April 15, 2016
Assessment Session Invitation [e-mail]: TBD

I'll keep posting updates of my progress on here.

There really isn't too much you can do now but wait. The in-person assessment isn't something you can prepare for. It covers a wide range of topics ... math, pattern recognition, spacial reasoning, general trivia?, and the dreaded telephone call section. The best thing you can do for yourself is just get a goods night rest before the exam.

From the NAV Canada website, they said YEG is in-demand right now. So hopefully you won't have to wait too long for an invite. I waited about 3 months in YVR.

Cheers

[AspiringATC]

[/quote]

There really isn't too much you can do now but wait. The in-person assessment isn't something you can prepare for. It covers a wide range of topics ... math, pattern recognition, spacial reasoning, general trivia?, and the dreaded telephone call section. The best thing you can do for yourself is just get a goods night rest before the exam.

From the NAV Canada website, they said YEG is in-demand right now. So hopefully you won't have to wait too long for an invite. I waited about 3 months in YVR.

Cheers[/quote]

Thanks for the info 4nANT! Glad to see there's at least one person that comes back to check on this thread. Either way how it goes it'll be a good adventure.

[Busybeeyeg]

Aspiringatc

Did you do the in person assessment? I did one in Edmonton on July 21 and have a phone interview booked.

[fanman888]

Jeff,

Looks like you and I might end up together..!!

Registration : 19 Sep, 2014
Application : 19 Sep, 2014
Cognitive test : 19 Sep, 2014
Online Results : 19 Sep, 2014
Assessment Session : 21 May, 2015
Assessment Results : 01 Jun, 2015
Phone (1st) Interview : 05 Jun, 2015
2nd Interview invitation : 22 Dec, 2015
2nd Interview : 20 Jan, 2016

My interview was today, and they said that they had an IFR course planned for May. I too was told that each class was about 4 people, but they said they were looking at about 8 candidates.

I will be called for a simulator test in February, and depending on how that goes will receive a training offer thereafter.

Initial generic course runs May-Sep. Oct is the specialized course that should go until next May. And then you have on the job training for a year.

I'm glad things are working out, the wait has been long. I had also considered doing Flight Specialist under Forces.ca. It's the same position except it is military vs civilian.

Don't be fooled. Civilian vs military ATC is totally different. I'm not sure of the difference between flight specialists and our FSS. Nothing against military ATC personnel.

Ref the simulator - is that a YVR only thing? I have never heard of ACCs doing a sim prior to an IFR course? Someone also mentioned it has no impact on your placement on the course. If so, I wonder if this is NavCan's way of showing people what they are in for prior to investing in them - to help curb the voluntary withdrawals someone mentioned - a thanks but no thanks would be better before the course starts. Maybe along the lines of be careful what you wish for.... Or they are trying to come up with a future assessment method. Just guessing.

Ref the military ATC, not sure if I would say "totally different", just a "bit different" than NavCan . Same Manops after all. Some diffs I'm aware of, for starters, if you don't have a degree I'm pretty sure you will not be the actual VFR or IFR controller. You could be a ground controller, a PAR controller or other helper type positions. There is also no ATC pay scale that I am aware of either – paid standard officer pay as per the website (still good, but different than NavCan). There are always good and bad things with any career, but I would take a run at NavCan first if you want to be a controller.

Former CAF here:

Regarding "Flight specialists" in the CF, their sole role is to help with coms and to assist with the actual controller's job. The trade that would be equivalent to civilian ATC would be an officer trade (university degree required), "Aerospace Control Officer". Once fully qualified, you'll be a Captain making standard captain rank pay (it's on the CF website). Once you hit major and above, you're more of a desk jocky and don't deal with actual controlling. Instead, you'll be tasked with managing the different controller flights, each flight consists of around 4-5 AEC (Aerospace Control Officers).

The training is done at the NavCan training facility in Cornwall, Ontario, HOWEVER they are not interchangeable and there are several distinguishing features between civilian ATC and military ATC. The AEC trade has 3 streams: IFR, VFR, and weapons. Weapons controllers are the "combat controllers" and deal solely with military aircraft during missions, specifically the F-18s. IFR and VFR are pretty standard. The military is seeking to expand into a 4th stream that's still under testing, which is "Space controller". But our budget is nowhere large enough to make that a reality for the foreseeable future.

Hope this cleared some things up!

[mjr2009]

Jeff,

Looks like you and I might end up together..!!

Registration : 19 Sep, 2014
Application : 19 Sep, 2014
Cognitive test : 19 Sep, 2014
Online Results : 19 Sep, 2014
Assessment Session : 21 May, 2015
Assessment Results : 01 Jun, 2015
Phone (1st) Interview : 05 Jun, 2015
2nd Interview invitation : 22 Dec, 2015
2nd Interview : 20 Jan, 2016

My interview was today, and they said that they had an IFR course planned for May. I too was told that each class was about 4 people, but they said they were looking at about 8 candidates.

I will be called for a simulator test in February, and depending on how that goes will receive a training offer thereafter.

Initial generic course runs May-Sep. Oct is the specialized course that should go until next May. And then you have on the job training for a year.

I'm glad things are working out, the wait has been long. I had also considered doing Flight Specialist under Forces.ca. It's the same position except it is military vs civilian.

I also finished my 2nd interview for YVR ACC. I got green light for IFR stream. Class is in May, just waiting for the call. They told me they may or may not give me a SIM. Good luck to all,

Cheers
mjr

[S-hady]

Its a nice thread with lot of information...I just wanted to say thanks to all of you guys helping people like me!! I would humbly request kindly keep updating information so that one can mentally prepare for things to come...well i am waiting for Assessment session(just passed cognitive test 2 days ago) but these things are really helping as now i am gonna start planning about how to work out that period of 8 months - 1 year without pay...Once again Thanks a lot...

[A346Dude]

Its a nice thread with lot of information...I just wanted to say thanks to all of you guys helping people like me!! I would humbly request kindly keep updating information so that one can mentally prepare for things to come...well i am waiting for Assessment session(just passed cognitive test 2 days ago) but these things are really helping as now i am gonna start planning about how to work out that period of 8 months - 1 year without pay...Once again Thanks a lot...

Training is now paid starting day 1. During the initial course it is an allowance equivalent to 30k/year. Once you pass that it is ATC-0 pay (approx 40k/year) until you check out.