Flight instructors (job-career?) why so negative?

[marakii]

I seem to be reading alot on how bad a pilot position of being a flight instructor can be.

Is it the hours, I know the pay can be better, not enough knowledgeable instructors, etc. Is there such a thing anymore of a career flight instructor today and why the dis-respect that they get? Didn't we all have one at some point in our flying days?

Just curious on the matter before I re-new mine again??

[Beefitarian]

The disrespect is partially internetz and partially painting with a broad brush. Like driving, it is a very small sample of drivers that are inconsiderate and should be put in the electric chair but they are also the one you remember for the rest of the week. When people see a bad instructor it makes them unreasonably angry. Then they vent, "What good are instructors?" Blargidy blarg grumble...

Conversely they hear about a decent instructor and they keep it to themselves. Life is not fair.

There was a guy on YouTube telling people he wanted the min wage increased so he could support his family working at KFC. He said he loved the job and enjoyed seeing people leave happy knowing they had a delicious bucket of chicken.

To be honest I think he needed a business loan to open his own fried chicken shack because a guy with that much passion could make better chicken than today's KFC. However if you want to be anything and do it well you get my respect.

Ignore the haters.

[danishroy]

People love to complain these days, I'm sure instructors would like to make more money or have a better schedule, but if you love it you will figure out a way to make it work. My instructor loves it but he also runs a skate shop to earn extra income. He said if he could he would only instruct. So if you love it then forget the rest, and keep doing it. I know guys who make 6 figures or more that still complain that they should make more.

[Shiny Side Up]

One should say that the level of outright generalized hatred I've seen and experienced towards instructors is an almost uniquely Canadian thing. The Americans seem to love their CFIs. In Britain its a position that warrants your own seat at the pub, for Asians and Africans its deserving of the the honorific "sir". It holds special high significance, and is a position of prestige, no matter the field, but I suspect if you get to instruct there you also get the most stick time.

I have a hard time believing that Canadians are uniquely bad people at instructing. Rather I think there are just attitudes that stem from Canada's mostly unique GA situation. The bush pilot has always been the mythical hero, and anyone not of that mythos involved in flying can't be any good. After all they chose to remain in the comforts of the city and work nine to five job to get easy hours in the circuit. Some truth to that, but in general a gross generalization which isn't very correct. People are individuals and deserve to be judged on their individual merits as opposed to a wider group they may belong to. Few of us flying have had identical circumstances or history, so why would we be the same at, what matters in this case, stick ability.

For that matter, I've even seen wide variations of students of the same instructors or schools, or in other cases, pilots who have worked at the same outfit. They're still people who generate their own qualities. But then we have many who assume every FTU is identical in Canada too. One knows what they say about assumptions.

[dforec]

Simply said: we worth nothing. Flight schools are seeing us as replaceable. Who on Earth wants to be an instructor for life when you get paid a "slave wage"?? After years of teaching in busy schools I finally had enough: I mean who wants to work for 10 hours and get paid for 5??...when you get paid of course... The job never ends, students will reach you anytime they want and ask you: "do you have time for a quick question??"
I have worked to places where a holiday stat pay doesn't even exist! I mean, this is a very basic right... FTU are abusing their instructors. I don't only blame the business model, but also the pilots who are only in for their own benefits...
An acquaintance of mine works at a driving school, he makes $65/h..! Why would someone flying an airplane and teaching be satisfied with $21/h???

[5x5]

An acquaintance of mine works at a driving school, he makes $65/h..!

I call BS - no one working for a driving school makes anywhere near that unless they are in a very unique situation.

As for flight instructing, it is difficult to be a "life-time" instructor. There just isn't the money in the aviation training business to support it. Also, what's being taught is relatively basic skills. As such, students won't pay extra to get instructed by a much more experienced instructor. There's no sliding scale of instructor rate based on experience and it there were, it's unlikely very many, if any, would pay the higher cost. Students will cross the street for a $5 cheaper rate regardless of anything else. Check out the number of threads that start with a statement like "Where can I get the cheapest rate......"

It's not like the owners of a flight school are making off with bucket loads of cash while their staff is getting screwed. In order to even survive, the school has to operate 7 days a week and throughout the day and night. The significant fixed-costs don't take days off so if a student wants to fly it's important to get the aircraft into the sky.

That being said, an instructor also has the ability to manage their students to a great extent. If they don't want calls after certain hours, they can tell their students that. But they also don't have the right to be offended if another instructor that is willing to more open with their time gets busier.

It's true that given the choice students want ultimate flexibility and many things organized at their convenience, but that's the general state in today's society, not just flight training.

[5x5]

****ooops - double post****

[dforec]

Sounds like someone is defending a great business model here...you can only be on the management side to write comments like that. It is surely the reason why this industry goes to down year after year...

“We can’t pay you more; we barely get enough money to get this business rolling”
“This is the nature of aviation business”
“You need to pay your dues”
“Everybody gets paid the same in aviation. I’ve got a stack of people waiting for your job...”
“We need to advertise for the lowest training price if we want to stay afloat”

Regarding your statement about “basic skills”... are you kidding me??? What on Earth do you qualify of basic skills?? That right there sold you out! You are definitely someone operating a flight school to undermine the work of your employees... That being said, if you only teach “basic skills”, you don’t worth much...so I will pay you accordingly!

This business model is sinking rapidly as the word spread out. Flight schools are trying to compete against each other by attracting customers with false advertisements: here you can do your PPL in 45H for this min price. We all know it never happens; students end up with a
+ $25 000 student loan when they were told $15 000 from the start. Flight schools will have to stand up for their instructors and tell customers and students: “here we value quality, if you seek only for the cheapest price, go next door with the crappy instructors”. Everything I do in life, I seek for quality; when I need a mechanic, I don’t cheap out and search for the lowest price in someone’s backyard!

Flight instructors are highly qualified trained people and deserve to get paid a LIVING wage!!! Sooner than later you will see instructors stand together and fight for their rights!

[dforec]

...Almost forgot to mention the most famous say at every flight schools to attract customers: “you are just in time; aviation is experiencing a humongous shortage of pilot”.
OMG! I can’t even remember how many times I heard a manager propagating this absolute lie!
The best way to justify an unprecedented student loan and a life of Kraft dinner!

[PilotDAR]

As such, students won't pay extra to get instructed by a much more experienced instructor. There's no sliding scale of instructor rate based on experience and it there were, it's unlikely very many, if any, would pay the higher cost. Students will cross the street for a $5 cheaper rate regardless of anything else. Check out the number of threads that start with a statement like "Where can I get the cheapest rate......"

This is a very important theme. Students should value their training as an important life and safety skill which they need to obtain at the highest level - not the lowest cost! As long as students will accept lower pay instructors, they could get lower skill instruction (that's a "may" not a "will"). It's true that a very new student does not need a 10,000 hour instructor - nice, but not required. But halfway into a PPL, they should be eager to buy up to the next instructional experience level. The new instructor can be paid fairly for the basic instruction they will offer to the next new student, while the more experienced instructor would have an opportunity to earn more for advanced instruction. When you go to the law firm, you're paying more for the senior lawyer than the junior lawyer, why would flying instruction be any different?

Flight instructors are highly qualified trained people and deserve to get paid a LIVING wage!!!

Any flying instructor certainly deserves to be paid a living wage - absolute agreement - it is a skilled discipline. But the "highly qualified" may be subject to some consideration. Yes, the highly qualified instructors deserve to be paid well for the skills they have earned. Not all instructors have earned those more advanced skills yet....

[SuperchargedRS]

I quite enjoyed my time as a instructor, my acomindations were nice and paid for, I made enough to have some fun, worked with high time instructors and career students, all tailwheel.

Later on I freelanced, made some nice cash money and had fun.

Perhaps the folks who speak poorly of instructing just aren't doing it right?

[dforec]

Hahaha, here we go. We are now debating about who is doing the good and bad teaching. Why are we in this situation again??...maybe because pilots are always undercutting each other. Just curious; when exactly did you teach and made good money? In the 90’s? Just so you know we are in 2016 and most flight schools didn’t increase their wages since early 2000... Every year that you aren’t getting a raise you are technically getting a pay cut due to inflation...

I can assure you my dear pilot friend that I only have 1 standard: quality! I’ve never accepted half measures and those who cut corners in my schedule. It was clearly stated and explained with all students from the get go... My record with TC has been there to prove it.

I quite enjoyed my time as a instructor, my acomindations were nice and paid for, I made enough to have some fun, worked with high time instructors and career students, all tailwheel.

Regarding your statement: “I made enough to have some fun”...Really?? Don’t get me wrong when I say that, I love flying, but the main reason isn’t to have fun! I’m passionate about my job, but I’m working to pay my bills and not to have fun!!! That is the reason why you can’t make a career at teaching aviation, because people like you are in it to have fun... Fun doesn’t pay for food in a grown up world

[dforec]

Any flying instructor certainly deserves to be paid a living wage - absolute agreement - it is a skilled discipline. But the "highly qualified" may be subject to some consideration. Yes, the highly qualified instructors deserve to be paid well for the skills they have earned. Not all instructors have earned those more advanced skills yet....

I agree. By highly qualified I was saying Class 2 and 1. Nevertheless, class 4 and 3's should be recognized has qualified. Either, or they should all be paid a living wage

[SuperchargedRS]

Hahaha, here we go. We are now debating about who is doing the good and bad teaching. Why are we in this situation again??...maybe because pilots are always undercutting each other. Just curious; when exactly did you teach and made good money? In the 90’s? Just so you know we are in 2016 and most flight schools didn’t increase their wages since early 2000... Every year that you aren’t getting a raise you are technically getting a pay cut due to inflation...

I can assure you my dear pilot friend that I only have 1 standard: quality! I’ve never accepted half measures and those who cut corners in my schedule. It was clearly stated and explained with all students from the get go... My record with TC has been there to prove it.

I quite enjoyed my time as a instructor, my acomindations were nice and paid for, I made enough to have some fun, worked with high time instructors and career students, all tailwheel.

Regarding your statement: “I made enough to have some fun”...Really?? Don’t get me wrong when I say that, I love flying, but the main reason isn’t to have fun! I’m passionate about my job, but I’m working to pay my bills and not to have fun!!! That is the reason why you can’t make a career at teaching aviation, because people like you are in it to have fun... Fun doesn’t pay for food in a grown up world

It was about 6 years ago, had my own condo on the airport, all paid for, all utilities paid, and when I said I MADE enough to have fun I'm talking life outside of the cockpit. The whole reason we don't work at timmys is to ENJOY life, and from what I was paid, plus having zero expenses, it was a good QOL.

Later on I free lanced, at $50hr plus $15hr on top of the planes discounted (for me) rate, all cash.

It's not hard to set yourself up well, you just got have tha tenacity to stray away from the herd.

[photofly]

I don't think anyone "deserves" anything, except perhaps in the world to come. You get what you can find someone to pay you for.

[PilotDAR]

I don't think anyone "deserves" anything, except perhaps in the world to come. You get what you can find someone to pay you for.

If someone has chosen to hire you, you deserve to be paid at least a "living wage" - any employee does, or they should not have been offered the job!

[photofly]

You're clearly a communist!

I think, overall, that a well structured society makes it possible for everyone to earn a living wage, so one "deserves" that. I don't see that anyone "deserves" a living wage at their own choice of occupation. Otherwise we'd still be paying lamplighters and horse manure haulers.

For as long as flight instruction is the way in to professional flying it will always be a shitty job with shifty conditions. Economics guarantees it.

[PilotDAR]

The communist might not be able to choose who they hire for the job. So they might get someone who struggles in the role and less earns their keep - that's different!

[SuperchargedRS]

I don't think anyone "deserves" anything, except perhaps in the world to come. You get what you can find someone to pay you for.

If someone has chosen to hire you, you deserve to be paid at least a "living wage" - any employee does, or they should not have been offered the job!

You deserve to be paid what the market will bear, nothing more, nothing less.

If your skills arnt worth much, you might not be paid a "living wage", whatever that is.

If your skills are in demand and the market isn't flooded with folks who are willing to do your job less than a premium wage, well life's probably going to be comfy for ya!

[JungianJugular]

I happen to work in a field related to flight instructing. My goal is to get into it part time (people tell me it's not possible, but it's worth a shot). Personally, I think it's rewarding work. It's something I am confident I would enjoy and be great at.

You need to have a personality for teaching, not just flight instructing. You have to enjoy being around people, be patient and see it as meaningful work.

[digits_]

I don't think anyone "deserves" anything, except perhaps in the world to come. You get what you can find someone to pay you for.

If someone has chosen to hire you, you deserve to be paid at least a "living wage" - any employee does, or they should not have been offered the job!

You deserve to be paid what the market will bear, nothing more, nothing less.

If your skills arnt worth much, you might not be paid a "living wage", whatever that is.

If your skills are in demand and the market isn't flooded with folks who are willing to do your job less than a premium wage, well life's probably going to be comfy for ya!

That doesn't allow you to pay people less than the minimum wage, which is the case for some flight instructor jobs (be present 8 hours a day and fly/bill 2 hours etc)

[SuperchargedRS]

You're their employee not their charge.

If there wasn't a ton of idiot instructors who would do it for peanuts you wouldn't have that problem, think of this before you take crap jobs folks!

I don't know why pilots are willing to be abused, you don't see this with other professions which demand same the level of education $ and responsibilities, go try to hire a freshly graduated RN nurse for flight instructor wages, they'll laugh you off the phone.

[dforec]

You're their employee not their charge.

If there wasn't a ton of idiot instructors who would do it for peanuts you wouldn't have that problem, think of this before you take crap jobs folks!

I don't know why pilots are willing to be abused, you don't see this with other professions which demand same the level of education $ and responsibilities, go try to hire a freshly graduated RN nurse for flight instructor wages, they'll laugh you off the phone.

I have been reading your last few posts and I’m speechless... The “idiots” like your are saying are not only found instructing, but also flying big birds with big companies... Instructors like any other flying positions in this industry are walking on a tiny string rope. Instructors are afraid to ask and denunciate; they think they’ll end up in the bad books and finish jobless...
Things most pilots agreed on:
- No pilot shortage
- Bad wages & working conditions
- Expensive training
- Pilots are always willing to undercut each other...
- ...I’m not going to enumerate all of it, it gets depressing...

Things most pilots disagreed on:
- Supply and demands
- It is your fault if you end up with a bad job
- It is normal to be paid like that; there is no money in this industry
- Instructing is only a transition job...
- ...

Alright, I get to my point here...why is it like that; please read back all the previous posting and ask yourself why??? Easy, pilots are idiots. Pilots are fighting against each other for the same answer on how to fix the problem. Sad, very sad!
That is the reason why I agree with the CPPC. Anybody can lead a group of disorganized individual. That “anybody” right now is the industry! It is ridiculously easy for them to lead us, and they do WHATEVER they want with us!

[SuperchargedRS]

Just have some self worth, in other industries folks don't need to be lead, they just say no to joke job offers, pilots seem that they will undercut their wages to get jobs, much more so than other industries. Instead of being the most qualified, diverse skill set, agreeable, whatever, they just lower the pay scale bar.