Is this the right approach to flight training ?

[Laser Tilt]

I see a lot of discussion here regarding flight training and how quickly you can get your PPL, how few hours can it be done, etc. In my situation I am an older guy that has been flight simming for years and would like to get my PPL now. My motivation is simply to accomplish a goal and for enjoyment. I have nowhere to go and no aviation career goals.

So in my case I am thinking there is no rush, if it takes me 100 hours and 18 months who cares because even after I get my PPL I would still need to rent a plane for some weekend flying fun. Am I missing something or is this the correct way to go.

[lhalliday]

Flying is a blast. Have fun.

I came to flying relatively late in life myself. I was 49 when I did my first solo. I have no interest in flying as a career, though I've considered being a part-time flight instructor.

You solo when you're ready. You do your flight test when you're ready. Screw the numbers and have fun.

...laura

[Laser Tilt]

Thanks for the advice, I am around the same age.

[CpnCrunch]

Go for it!

[lhalliday]

One thing I encountered, and which you may encounter too: people with flight sim backgrounds tend to spend too much time looking at instruments and not enough time looking outside when they first get in the left seat of a real plane.

Don't be surprised if your instructor reaches over and sticks post-it notes on most of your flight instruments.

...laura

[RevT]

Just do it. I'm was in a similar boat. I'm a flight test away from my PPL after about 60hrs spread out over 1.5 years. My advice - go get your medical ASAP. My 1.5 years would probably have been more like 11 months but I had a rough 6 month break in the middle that delayed my solo because I had something on my medical requiring additional tests to satisfy TC.

Otherwise, enjoy it! The training has been fantastically enjoyable in and of itself. It'll be nice to have the PPL to share it with family and friends.

[5x5]

****Warning to the easily offended - generalizations follow****

For you, that sounds like a fine attitude. I would recommend that you look for an older instructor and perhaps one that is doing it part-time or at least not trying to get anywhere career-wise. A lot of young instructors simply don't get older people. And since they tend to be on the path to a career they tend to have the mindset of push-push-push. It's easy to wind up with an unhappy instructor if you seem to be coming at it with a laissez-faire attitude. Do enjoy the ride as once you have the licence and have given all your friends and family the obligatory "city tour" flights you may find yourself lacking a reason to fly. Training is a good motivator that way since the learning your accomplishing is reason in itself.

If you find that a significant other is getting anxious to fly with you as it seems to them that the training is dragging on and will never end, ask your instructor if they could come along on a dual flight like circuits or a cross-country. Riding in the back is certainly not like sitting in the right seat with you beside them fearlessly commanding this chariot of the sky, but it can hold them over until you get the licence.

It's hard to go wrong though as flying is one of the most amazing things you'll ever do and hopefully leads to an activity that allows you to travel and enjoy new experiences for the rest of your life.

[photofly]

The horor exhibited online by people who have too much time on their hands at the concept of hundred hour PPL training is intended by them to be a stick with which to beat instructors that they've never met and about whom they know nothing who train students of whose circumstances they are likewise completely ignorant. It's not directed at the student, and it's particularly not directed at a student who deliberately wants to take their time with the training.

Take as long as you want; you're going to be learning to fly for hundreds or thousands of hours anyway, whether that's solo post PPL or before your PPL with an instructor you like in the other seat. But you do have a responsibility to yourself to make sure that with each hour of instruction you do indeed learn something.

[Gannet167]

There's nothing inherently wrong with taking your time in training. The key is that it's good training and you're learning how to do things right. If you're deliberately choosing to spend extra time to focus on each component of the overall skill/knowledge set, you may be spending more money unecessarily, but if you like flying, like the instructor, enjoy mastering skills, then it doesn't mean it's bad training, per se.

Building good habits out of the starting gate is key. One of the main principles of teaching is primacy of learning. Extended training times tend to suggest that the student either learns slowly, has a limited cognitive capacity, lacks the hand eye coordination, is lazy etc. Or, that the instructor is doing a poor job of teaching the skills and knowledge set or driving the student to become increasingly independent in applying the skills competently, developing and applying good judgement, analyzing and making decisions correcting to the ideal. The implication is the student is either weak (and therefore he/she is of questionable suitability to operate an aircraft) or the instructor is a bad teacher. But, assuming the teacher is good, the student is good, there's nothing wrong with practicing over and over. If you want to do 500 circuits to really, really master them - have at it. It's just expensive.

Personally, I would suggest that you invest some hard work in pre-study and preparation before each flight to have everything that you need rote memorized committed to memory, ensure you understand all the concepts, you've practiced and rehearsed all the mundane aspects of operating the plane so they are easy before you even brief. This frees up brain capacity in the plane to focus on and really learn how to fly - to see and analyze, focus attention where it's key, and build the foundation skills. This will result in requiring far less time in the plane to learn to perform a maneuver to a given level of proficiency. A good student with a good instructor may need half the number of circuits (for example) to master them. The rest of that expensive flight time I'd then apply to something new and challenging - aerobatics maybe. Then you may want to learn IFR. Etc. etc. which to me would be better time spent developing as a pilot than doing more circuits, more slow flight etc.

In short, if you are a good student and focus, apply yourself and be engaged, you won't need 100 hours. If you like flying and want to fly more - then use the rest of your budget on learning to do more and better things. Progress at your own pace, but if you're smart and take ownership over your learning (vice showing up and just letting the instructor do all the work) your own pace will be faster.

[co-joe]

My experience suggests that you should set a time frame of one summer to get your PPL. Get the groundschool done, PSTAR, medical, etc out of the way early, write the PPAER as soon as you can so nothing holds you back.

Here's why; If you make your training low on the priority list you are only hurting yourself. I have a few hundred hours of instructing and taught a lot of older people. You come in keen, but don't remember what was covered 3 weeks ago, haven't done the reading or have forgotten the finer points that you needed to work on and then life happened and flying went to the bottom of the priority list. Wife, kids, work, then a weather or broken airplane delay. You know you're not prepared but you are excited and have been waiting 3 weeks to go and you end up repeating the last lesson over and over and over and you get frustrated, your instructor gets frustrated....Then your instructor gets a job up north and you get to start over with a new kid.

My advice is make this the summer that you achieve the PPL. Don't schedule a vacation in the middle of your training. Don't take extra shifts at work, heck take your vacation time to really study. Aim for 60 hours total. It's really not that hard to achieve if you study every night and after every flight while it's still fresh. Review the lesson, review the Flight Training Manual, read the CARs/ AIM (if nothing else they cure insomnia).

Just humble opinion but "I'll do my PPL in 100-150 hours", turns into "I almost got my PPL when I was younger" very easily.

[Laser Tilt]

Great advice everyone, thanks,

Just a question on the Medical.....does this expire or need to be renewed? If so how often ?

[7ECA]

And now you can enjoy your first foray into the CARs: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regu ... l#s-404.04

[Laser Tilt]

One thing I encountered, and which you may encounter too: people with flight sim backgrounds tend to spend too much time looking at instruments and not enough time looking outside when they first get in the left seat of a real plane.

Don't be surprised if your instructor reaches over and sticks post-it notes on most of your flight instruments.

...laura

I have heard this many times as well. I guess that's what happens when you have no "feel" for the aircraft and its difficult to judge the engine sounds.

[lhalliday]

I'm not a "sporting" person, and flying (particularly landing) was the first time since my teens I was learning a new skill that was based on reflexes and coordination. I stuck with it and got it right. Eventually.

On the other hand, I found instrument flying so easy that I did the CPL-level stuff as part of my five PPL hours, partial panel/timed turns, and so on...

Flying literally changed my life. When I started I was badly overweight. By the time I did my flight test I had lost 160 pounds.

...laura

[AirFrame]

I think my advice would fall somewhere between @Gannet167 and @cojoe. You're not in a hurry and it wouldn't bother you if it took 100 hours, but keep in mind that 100 hours is a very high number, even for people walking in off the street with no past experience.

You're coming in with more than a passing understanding of aircraft, avionics, airport procedures, and maybe even radio procedures if your home sim was detailed enough. Don't be completely surprised if you are able to get a license in 70 hours, which is the "average" the schools were quoting not long ago for people coming in with no prior knowledge. And if you're consistent with your training and are able to stick with a single instructor through the whole thing, don't be surprised if you do it in less than that.

If you plan and budget for an hour a week for a year, that'll give you 52 hours. You'll have some longer and some shorter flights, you'll miss some weeks due to weather, and you'll probably fly three times a week before your flight test at the end. But planning and trying for that consistency (in terms of regular flying and same instructor each time) will reduce the need for large amounts of review of the previous week's lesson on the next flight.

However you plan to do it, just start. Warning - It's addictive.

[radubc]

I was in your situation exactly. I took my time to do the ppl. About 70 hours in 3 years. Now I'm working on my commercial and aerobatics. Aerobatics in a taildragger can do wonders to your skills. There is also a trick with the commercial. When you start it, all your ppl becomes tax deductible. If you are a medium to high income earner, the 15% tax refund on your ppl and cpl can be quite significant. It would be almost enough to pay for the instructor on your cpl. Assuming you fly the solo hours anyway, you end-up with cpl flying skills for free. My plan at the time is to be a part time flight instructor. It would be an interesting job for the weekend.

[Gannet167]

The beauty of clearing your schedule and committing time exclusively to flying training is you will build your skills each flight on the progress made on the previous flight. In an ideal world, if the student is putting in the hard work - investing in the learning on the ground - then flying once to twice a day allows maximum proficiency and progress. If you take a week off, you will spend a portion of your next flight shaving off the rust and getting back to where you were on the last flight. The military's flight training program affords students a review flight, over and above the strict syllabus, if they haven't flown for 10 days. Even if they have been flying regularly but haven't flown in a phase of training - IFR for example - for 20 days, they also get a free flight. Continuity is recognized as a key player in success. You can mitigate this by practicing on the ground, but there's no substitute for great continuity. An analogy would be learning piano. If you only touch the instrument once a week, your progress will be slow. Within about 60 flying hours Air Force student pilots are at or above a single pilot commercial IFR level, and have aerobatics and formation training, on a 300 kt turboprop. Although the Air Force recruits a very specific candidate, the level they reach in the minimal flying time is mainly due to immense study and practice prior to every flight and a required very fast rate of progression through the course so continuity is high.

[AirFrame]

There is also a trick with the commercial. When you start it, all your ppl becomes tax deductible. If you are a medium to high income earner, the 15% tax refund on your ppl and cpl can be quite significant.

Check with the CRA before you take this to the bank. The rules have changed over the years... When I did mine the PPL was deductible if you were intending to go on and get a CPL. The last I heard was that the PPL was not deductible at all, even if you went on to do your CPL.

[radubc]

It is tax deductible if you enroll and start the cpl. The flight school will issue a TL11B and they will include what is deductible. If you need more info please let me know and I will make some time to send you links.

[PropToFeather]

I'm of a similar opinion to Gannet167 and co-joe. Setting a definite goal, as opposed to going very laissez-faire about training will get you to a PPL quicker (calendar-time-wise), and will put you in a better mental space to learn. My personal thought would be to (book to) fly at least 2-3 times a week, more if you can. At a PPL level, you can bet at least 30% of your bookings will get canned due to weather or plane availability, so it's better to have more. The added bonus of not having to re-learn last week/month's flight also ends up saving you money - which you'll need if you're looking into ownership or renting down the road! (The money saved will also help you if you decide to go a little bit further and get your night rating ["fly... at night!"], your float rating ["fly... into a lake!"], or your instrument rating ["fly... in (relatively) crappy weather!"])

Also, if the place you're training at has other students, I found it helps to be around them. They may not share your ultimate goals in aviation, but, all of you are learning, and sometimes there are ways of learning things that don't involve instructors (but may involve sticking around after the flight and bantering around the dispatch desk).

There is also a trick with the commercial. When you start it, all your ppl becomes tax deductible. If you are a medium to high income earner, the 15% tax refund on your ppl and cpl can be quite significant.

Check with the CRA before you take this to the bank. The rules have changed over the years... When I did mine the PPL was deductible if you were intending to go on and get a CPL. The last I heard was that the PPL was not deductible at all, even if you went on to do your CPL.

Last I checked on this (namely, a couple of years ago, while just starting PPL), the newest edition of the rule is that you have to be in a "professional training program" in order to qualify, or, in other words, if you aren't in a CPL/iATPL/college program designed to take you from zero to hero, your PPL is not eligible for the tuition credits.

[radubc]

See paragraph 2.38 in the link below.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/tchncl/ncmt ... tml#N108DC

I claimed my TL11Bs after talking at least twice with the CRA.

If your flight school does not qualify for issuing TL11Bs, they will not issue them.

If you want to take an extra step to be sure, click the link below, choose your province and look for your flight school.

http://www.esdc.gc.ca/en/post_secondary ... hools.page

However, the above rules don't apply if you don't intend to fly commercially at the end. If you do the cpl just to be a better pilot, it's not tax deductible. The government want their money back in income taxes.

[photofly]

I believe that in addition to being able to claim the training costs against income, depending on province you can also receive a rebate on HSt charged on flight training.

[radubc]

Getting a GST/HST rebate does not depend on the province, but the amount might. The conditions to qualify are different and more complicated than the ones for the tuition tax credit. You can claim the GST/HST only after you get the license, for a limited number of hours and for receipts not older than 2 years.

[TheStig]

I'm of a similar opinion to Gannet167 and co-joe. Setting a definite goal, as opposed to going very laissez-faire about training will get you to a PPL quicker (calendar-time-wise), and will put you in a better mental space to learn. My personal thought would be to (book to) fly at least 2-3 times a week, more if you can. At a PPL level, you can bet at least 30% of your bookings will get canned due to weather or plane availability, so it's better to have more. The added bonus of not having to re-learn last week/month's flight also ends up saving you money - which you'll need if you're looking into ownership or renting down the road! (The money saved will also help you if you decide to go a little bit further and get your night rating ["fly... at night!"], your float rating ["fly... into a lake!"], or your instrument rating ["fly... in (relatively) crappy weather!"])

I agree, you might not want to view completing your PPL as such a long term objective. Anyone who is flying is always learning (or re-learning something you once knew and had forgotten). Make completing your license a short term objective, you will still have lots of learning to do afterwards so don't worry about feeling like you need to know absolutely everything.

Part-time students frequently fall into a bit of a trap where they don't fly with enough regularity, due to other commitments to get past the final hump (their flight test) and start booking lessons just to stay somewhat current. Usually not long after their first solo, once that happens its seems students start booking with less frequency, say once a week, after a lesson they book another the following weekend...well something comes up and it get postponed, and then again, then the next week their instructor is booked. Finally 3 or 4 weeks later they make it up in the air again, only to spend 1.5 hours dual (aka $300 of after-tax income) re-learning what they did on their previous lesson. Repeat that three or four times and the student (and to some extent Instructor) starts to get frustrated at a noticeable lack of progress. Meanwhile other students who they completed their ground school with have completed their License, as they've flown with greater regularity, that only adds to the part-timers frustration. At this point it's common for the student to; start blaming their instructor, or start thinking they may not 'have what it takes'. The reality is you can accomplish more in a week flying daily then you can in 6 months booking weekly. While it may sound stressful, from my experience, it's actually the more rewarding and successful path to take.

The best summer of my life was spent learning to fly, it can be stressful at times but knowing that you're working towards achieving your goals certainly helps makes things enjoyable. Being a pilot provides you with a life time of learning, but completing your PPL should be best viewed as a short-term heavy commitment which you can build experience upon at a leisurely pace after completion.

[PropToFeather]

Anyone who is flying is always learning

Extremely true. Several people have said to me and my classmates that "a private pilot's license is a license to learn". I've yet to find any fault in that statement... and, once you get it, you'll realise exactly how much more learning there is past the basics!