Air Canada Pool

[digits_]

I get a 'UNIVERSITY' degree is important but they gotta remember airline flying is a profession where everybody has to give due respect to one's flying experience may it be as PIC, Jet or any other such professional related skill. Sure a degree is good to have in your Resume but not everybody had the funds to afford it, and I guess for those who can now don't have the time to give towards it. I honestly think the HR at AC need to give an honest look at how they screen their future pilots.

I think it is safe to assume they want a degree AND flying experience.

I don't see any downside with having a university degree as an additional requirement.

[Anticyclone]

The degree is just there because of the high application number...try to refer to it when you hit a severe CAT at FL 390.

[ActionAxson]

So are aviation diplomas from Confed, Sault, and other colleges weighed equal to a 4 year degree?

[bruced007]

Oh Sorry so getting a CPL/ATPL with numerous hours of experience doesn't show any aptitude or ability to learn. Talking about arguing , I was simply expressing an opinion on this forum, on the contrary your arrogance that stems for your very highly attained qualifications is quite evident and shows what a risk you are to a modern cockpit environment.

I know tons of pilots @ AC that were hired without any educational qualification other than high school. Yes I understand times have changed and in order to make it more competitve they are giving preference to UNI degree holders, but as I said in my opinion there is no logic in giving pref to someone with just a UNI degree instead be selective and give preference to Aviation Diploma holders caz thats related to the industry or give preference to someone that has JET or Multi PIC time.

As I said not everybody had a rich daddy to get a degree and their Commercial. I got into the industry about 15 years ago and back then it was either University for 25-30k or flying for 30-35k. I hope to complete it one day but opportunities shouldn't be limited to those who had the extra $$$ just to get a degree. Going forward times are changing , in todays world maybe only 30-40% have a degree but give it another few years I'm sure it will reach the point that 90% of applicants will have a degree, so does that mean it would reach a point where they would hire applicants with Uni degree and a Jet rating

Hope you get my drift...As someone said having a bachelors degree in Environmental studies, Criminology or a Science degree won't help you when your flying a crosswind approach approach somewhere or when you hit CAT at FL390

I get a 'UNIVERSITY' degree is important but they gotta remember airline flying is a profession where everybody has to give due respect to one's flying experience may it be as PIC, Jet or any other such professional related skill. Sure a degree is good to have in your Resume but not everybody had the funds to afford it, and I guess for those who can now don't have the time to give towards it. I honestly think the HR at AC need to give an honest look at how they screen their future pilots.

P.S A degree and a Commercial Pilots Licence won't make you a better pilot as compared to someone who has earned his time flying numerous hours, by that I mean not 2000hrs of which 200 are from your commerical .

All the best to all

Nope, but it does show an aptitude and ability to learn. It also shows dedication to complete a task. A degree is more than just fluffing your resume and AC HR presently agrees with this perspective. Instead of arguing why they shouldn't use it as a screening device, why not fulfill the requirement? It separates your resume from the rest of the pile.

[digits_]

Oh Sorry so getting a CPL/ATPL with numerous hours of experience doesn't show any aptitude or ability to learn.

Not as much as a university degree + CPL/ATPL would show.

[Cleared Enroute]

The degree is just there because of the high application number...try to refer to it when you hit a severe CAT at FL 390.

You need the right skills/experience to deal with hitting CAT but I can refer to MET courses I took in university to try and avoid CAT. Not saying every degree helps but to say, as some seem to think, that a degree is just "checking a box" is a little naive.

[speedwindow]

Right. It's amazing the rest of us lasted this long without a degree in microbiology

In all seriousness kids, I wouldn't be rushing off to drop 30k on a unrelated degree because this is Big Red's flavour of the month. Four years from now you'll need military experience or pipeline patrol time or a float rating. You know, just cause. You'll go nuts trying to figure it out.

[atphat]

I can refer to MET courses I took in university to try and avoid CAT.

Please share with the rest of the class. I would love to hear you tell Miami ATC that you need a diversion in CAVOK for the possibility of CAT.

[Oliver Close-off]

I can refer to MET courses I took in university to try and avoid CAT.

Please share with the rest of the class. I would love to hear you tell Miami ATC that you need a diversion in CAVOK for the possibility of CAT.

Stop ruining this thread with the degree discussion.

[AOW]

Its been a couple of months, has anyone with the 'phone interview in the next 12 months' email had a phone interview, or had one scheduled?

Not me, nor anyone I have heard of.

[Anticyclone]

The degree is just there because of the high application number...try to refer to it when you hit a severe CAT at FL 390.

You need the right skills/experience to deal with hitting CAT but I can refer to MET courses I took in university to try and avoid CAT. Not saying every degree helps but to say, as some seem to think, that a degree is just "checking a box" is a little naive.

From your statement it shows that you never passed the transition altitude, as said by a wise man lets get back to the real subject.

[PROC_HDG]

Right. It's amazing the rest of us lasted this long without a degree in microbiology

In all seriousness kids, I wouldn't be rushing off to drop 30k on a unrelated degree because this is Big Red's flavour of the month. Four years from now you'll need military experience or pipeline patrol time or a float rating. You know, just cause. You'll go nuts trying to figure it out.

More like Flavour of the Century. They have been giving preference to candidates with degrees for many years. They do it because it narrows a giant field of applicants with similar experience, and is more likely to produce an applicant that is well suited to their training environment etc. Nobody is saying you need a degree to be a good pilot. But Air Canada is saying you need a degree to be competitive for them, and I don't think that's unreasonable.

PROC_HDG

[bruced007]

Right. It's amazing the rest of us lasted this long without a degree in microbiology

In all seriousness kids, I wouldn't be rushing off to drop 30k on a unrelated degree because this is Big Red's flavour of the month. Four years from now you'll need military experience or pipeline patrol time or a float rating. You know, just cause. You'll go nuts trying to figure it out.

More like Flavour of the Century. They have been giving preference to candidates with degrees for many years. They do it because it narrows a giant field of applicants with similar experience, and is more likely to produce an applicant that is well suited to their training environment etc. Nobody is saying you need a degree to be a good pilot. But Air Canada is saying you need a degree to be competitive for them, and I don't think that's unreasonable.

PROC_HDG

Salute, well said. I respect your perspective. Its a great tool to narrow down a large number of applicants all I am saying is they should perhaps give preference to applicants on the basis of

1.Aviation Degree/ Diploma
2.JET/PIC 705 Time ( anything thats bigger than their Express fleet)
3.Express Carriers
4.University degree/College
5.Second Language ...

Hope you get my drift. Just as a University degree adds flavour so do items 1-3. There are many guys who got PFO'd at jazz when they applied but are moving over as per the flowthrough and they DO NOT have a degree.


All the best to all!

[Tobelino]

I received my letter saying I would get a phone interview within the following 12 months in March... I do not have a University degree but I do have an Aviation degree from a College in the province of Qc. All of my jet time comes from corporate aviation... I was turned down from Skyregional because I do not have any 705 operations... We will see what happens in time. All the best to those waiting like me!

[LTD]

You make a good point Bruced007.
But when faced with such a wide array of qualified applicants with plenty of flight experience from Express carriers, competitors such as transat, sunwing, etc. as well as various tier 2 and 3 carriers, a university degree is a great and easy way to narrow your search down to fewer high quality candidates.
Added to the fact that hiring a pilot at AC means hiring an employee for the next 30+ years which is a HUGE commitment for any company to make. Any person with any degree most likely possesses many attributes one would look for in any good, long term employee.

I believe even you would agree a 30 something year old mechanical engineer, lawyer, or microbiologist;) with a few thousand hours on a couple decent planes (704/705) will statistically yield a better employee than a 25 year old with equal logbook and no other Life experience outside aviation.

As for who's the best pilot? with similar logbook, I think anyone would agree it's a wash. Who's the best long term employee? AC and most major airlines in North America believe odds are it's the university graduate.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule... But I personally agree that while the pool of candidates is large enough to favor university degrees on top of adequate flight experience. It is a statistically good practice to do so.
Respectfully,
LTD

[DH772]

300+ vacancies over the next year
Only 10% of those spots are for external hires. That leaves 30 positions.
Application was open for 30 days and I've been told they received over 1000 "qualified" applications.
30 spots for 1000 pilots.
A degree is easy way to narrow down that list.

Edited to add-

Canadian Space Agency is hiring 2 astronauts again. Minimum requirements include:
Bachelor's degree from a recognized university in one of the following fields:
engineering; or
science (e.g., physics, chemistry, biology, geology, mathematics, computer science);

You probably should also contact the CSA and voice your concern how having a degree or a doctorate won't make your a better astronaut.

[yycflyguy]

Oh Sorry so getting a CPL/ATPL with numerous hours of experience doesn't show any aptitude or ability to learn. Talking about arguing , I was simply expressing an opinion on this forum, on the contrary your arrogance that stems for your very highly attained qualifications is quite evident and shows what a risk you are to a modern cockpit environment.

I know tons of pilots @ AC that were hired without any educational qualification other than high school. Yes I understand times have changed and in order to make it more competitve they are giving preference to UNI degree holders, but as I said in my opinion there is no logic in giving pref to someone with just a UNI degree instead be selective and give preference to Aviation Diploma holders caz thats related to the industry or give preference to someone that has JET or Multi PIC time.

As I said not everybody had a rich daddy to get a degree and their Commercial. I got into the industry about 15 years ago and back then it was either University for 25-30k or flying for 30-35k. I hope to complete it one day but opportunities shouldn't be limited to those who had the extra $$$ just to get a degree. Going forward times are changing , in todays world maybe only 30-40% have a degree but give it another few years I'm sure it will reach the point that 90% of applicants will have a degree, so does that mean it would reach a point where they would hire applicants with Uni degree and a Jet rating

Hope you get my drift...As someone said having a bachelors degree in Environmental studies, Criminology or a Science degree won't help you when your flying a crosswind approach approach somewhere or when you hit CAT at FL390

So because you don't tick the "degree box" your approach is to belittle those who have completed it? Are you trying to hired or not? I've been with AC long enough to respect the various backgrounds guys bring to the flight deck. Having a degree certainly does not bring any "risk to the modern cockpit environment" - whatever that means.

FWIW "Daddy" didn't pay for anything. Aviation and Degree paid for by This Guy.... by working multiple jobs while completing certification.

Try meeting the requirements instead of pontificating on why you are a better candidate.

[Old fella]

Going on my 66th year, I never heard of any situation where post-secondary education was a hindrance, ditto for second language ability. Anybody who has either or both, I commend them.

[atphat]

Anybody who has either or both, I commend them.

+1.

[bruced007]

To be an Astronaut having a Science degree should be mandated, so I think that is fair, most applicants are Masters or Phd's in Astro Physics.

Flying is not rocket science even though some pilots may make it seem like it is . I respect all your comments on the idea of a degree represents the ability to learn and that AC is hiring an employee for a possible 30 year period so its a huge investment HOWEVER.... putting it as simple as I said earlier, insist on a degree but then be more specific (Engineering, Science etc). I know guys that decided not to go up north or west and chose the easier route while they got their degree in History or Political Science... and they are being considered over guys who actually went the extra mile to fly in more challenging working conditions.

Assume person A has no university degree and has got 6000TT with some PIC and in various airplanes while person B has a university degree with half the amount of TT and is being considered over A, that doesn't make any sense. All I am saying is make it a fair playing ground if you truly want to hire the right talent. And yes ...'Money spent in education is never lost'

[aV1aTOr]

Sometimes too much is made of flying experience. I will probably get flamed for this, but having flown transport category jets for 4 years now, I must admit my hands and feet skills come into play much less than you might think (any other airline pilots here know this full well). Yes we take off and land in challenging conditions and must be trained and ready for anything that may cause us to loose any and all automation. That is a given.
On the other hand, interpersonal skills and management ability come into play OFTEN. Like every flight. I'm not out to undermine actual flying experience, we all know when it matters most you want someone at the controls who can safely manage an aircraft under pressure in a severely degraded state. However to place all the emphasis on hands and feet and head knowledge alone is to misunderstand the job of a modern commercial pilot.
Management and interpersonal skills are not only learned in university, of course. That's not at all what I'm trying to say. I'm just saying John Smith bush pilot with 5000 hours flying on skis and to gravel strips and with incredible aviation experience does not a competent airline pilot make.
(full disclosure, I consider myself a well trained and capable Air Canada pilot, and I have zero post secondary education)

[tbaylx]

Sometimes too much is made of flying experience. I will probably get flamed for this, but having flown transport category jets for 4 years now, I must admit my hands and feet skills come into play much less than you might think (any other airline pilots here know this full well). Yes we take off and land in challenging conditions and must be trained and ready for anything that may cause us to loose any and all automation. That is a given.
On the other hand, interpersonal skills and management ability come into play OFTEN. Like every flight. I'm not out to undermine actual flying experience, we all know when it matters most you want someone at the controls who can safely manage an aircraft under pressure in a severely degraded state. However to place all the emphasis on hands and feet and head knowledge alone is to misunderstand the job of a modern commercial pilot.
Management and interpersonal skills are not only learned in university, of course. That's not at all what I'm trying to say. I'm just saying John Smith bush pilot with 5000 hours flying on skis and to gravel strips and with incredible aviation experience does not a competent airline pilot make.
(full disclosure, I consider myself a well trained and capable Air Canada pilot, and I have zero post secondary education)

Unfortunately you can't teach interpersonal skills. Some have it, some don't no matter how many CRM courses they attend. Wish it were possible though, then all "those" pilots (of which every company seems to have a few regardless of their application process or requirements) would eventually learn how to speak and interact with colleagues.

[aV1aTOr]

Sometimes too much is made of flying experience. I will probably get flamed for this, but having flown transport category jets for 4 years now, I must admit my hands and feet skills come into play much less than you might think (any other airline pilots here know this full well). Yes we take off and land in challenging conditions and must be trained and ready for anything that may cause us to loose any and all automation. That is a given.
On the other hand, interpersonal skills and management ability come into play OFTEN. Like every flight. I'm not out to undermine actual flying experience, we all know when it matters most you want someone at the controls who can safely manage an aircraft under pressure in a severely degraded state. However to place all the emphasis on hands and feet and head knowledge alone is to misunderstand the job of a modern commercial pilot.
Management and interpersonal skills are not only learned in university, of course. That's not at all what I'm trying to say. I'm just saying John Smith bush pilot with 5000 hours flying on skis and to gravel strips and with incredible aviation experience does not a competent airline pilot make.
(full disclosure, I consider myself a well trained and capable Air Canada pilot, and I have zero post secondary education)

Unfortunately you can't teach interpersonal skills. Some have it, some don't no matter how many CRM courses they attend. Wish it were possible though, then all "those" pilots (of which every company seems to have a few regardless of their application process or requirements) would eventually learn how to speak and interact with colleagues.

+1

[AirMail]

The degree is just there because of the high application number...try to refer to it when you hit a severe CAT at FL 390.

You need the right skills/experience to deal with hitting CAT but I can refer to MET courses I took in university to try and avoid CAT. Not saying every degree helps but to say, as some seem to think, that a degree is just "checking a box" is a little naive.

wow, you must be such a joy to fly with! Please enlighten all of us with your fountain of knowledge as I'm sure you've always avoided CAT. GTFO

[Duke p]

How is this little "spat" helpful to those in the pool????

Having a degree will help you get a job with Air Canada. Don't like it, or don't agree........too bad.

There are plenty of people out there with University education looking for employment in aviation.

Those individuals who had the foresight, and put the effort in to get a "leg up" in this extremely competitive industry are the smart ones, and that's who AC wants to interview first. Every pilot serious about heading to the Majors knows this entering the game.

Those that chose the "easier route" for whatever reason, can get in the "other longer line" with everyone else and wait their turn for consideration.

DP.