Pilots and Alcohol

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Gino Under
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Pilots and Alcohol

Post by Gino Under »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/art ... rport.html

It takes more than suspicion to convict.

Recent update...

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/ai ... li=AAggNb9

It sounds like a breathalyzer was administered.
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Last edited by Gino Under on Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Redwine
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by Redwine »

I understand being an airline pilot can be very stressful at times. But drinking to the extent that behavior becomes an issue the day of flight is inexcusable and illegal. I would almost bet this was not the first time these two jokers did this. Only this time, they got caught. It is a shame and am glad they were arrested. Their decision making is not worthy of the stripes they wear on their shoulders.
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SuperchargedRS
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by SuperchargedRS »

Did the police have them blow or take a blood sample?
I'd think if they did it would have been mentioned in the story.


If not, and if they wernt drunk, I'd hope they sue for as much as they can, because that's some major career damage.
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valleyboy
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by valleyboy »

ALPA is likely scrambling to figure out how to defend these guys but the trend over the past few years is to have 12 hours in the COM of most companies. Regardless what happens these 2 guys will be kicking stones, especially if they were in contradiction of the COM and to be turned in by your own crew members, DAMN, it must of been a sh1t show.
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Mooney21
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by Mooney21 »

SuperchargedRS wrote:Did the police have them blow or take a blood sample?
I'd think if they did it would have been mentioned in the story.


If not, and if they wernt drunk, I'd hope they sue for as much as they can, because that's some major career damage.
The article says they will appear in court. So the police have the evidence to lay charges.
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yycflyguy
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by yycflyguy »

Does everyone realize the stringent alcohol rules in the UK? If you have two or three drinks 13 hours before flight there is a very good chance you will be over the 20mg of alcohol/100ml limit. That is four times more stringent than operating a vehicle. Not condoning their actions but many are insinuating that they pounded a few drinks right before work.
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Old fella
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by Old fella »

yycflyguy wrote:Does everyone realize the stringent alcohol rules in the UK? If you have two or three drinks 13 hours before flight there is a very good chance you will be over the 20mg of alcohol/100ml limit. That is four times more stringent than operating a vehicle. Not condoning their actions but many are insinuating that they pounded a few drinks right before work.
Certainly an element of truth in that, I would assume they would consult qualified lawyers for legal assistance.
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cdnpilot77
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by cdnpilot77 »

yycflyguy wrote:Does everyone realize the stringent alcohol rules in the UK? If you have two or three drinks 13 hours before flight there is a very good chance you will be over the 20mg of alcohol/100ml limit. That is four times more stringent than operating a vehicle. Not condoning their actions but many are insinuating that they pounded a few drinks right before work.

Do they have not still have the obligation to report fit for duty regardless of how stringent the local law is?
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jpilot77
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by jpilot77 »

The story says the cabin crew tipped off the police. Which makes me think that this wasn't 2 beers with dinner 14 hours before report time.
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garfield
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by garfield »

Well if they were acting odd I'm sure they weren't just hangover.

95% of pilots I know are heavy drinkers, but they drink when they're OFF for the next 24 hours at least.
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Gino Under
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by Gino Under »

I'm pretty sure this offence, whether they're convicted or not, is gonna leave a mark. Probably on both pilots and their careers. Unfortunately.
Let's start with the airline's reputation and go from there. Ouch!
Management ISN'T going to be happy about the publicity this will likely generate.
If the sight of pilots acting strange before a flight is a tip off, many of us are in trouble.
Long haul has its' affects on the individual and whether or not you get sufficient rest, especially less than 8 hours, can often leave you groggy or simply punch drunk silly from fatigue.
In this case however, it sounds like the Fu*kup Fairy may have waved her wand at a most inappropriate time.

There, but for the grace of God and an incredible amount of shi*house luck, go many of us.

Gino :partyman:
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by AuxBatOn »

Gino Under wrote: In this case however, it sounds like the Fu*kup Fairy may have waved her wand at a most inappropriate time.
I am glad they got caught before they killed people. Such behaviour does not merit the privilege of holding any pilot license, nevermind an ATPL. Talk about decision making...
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yycflyguy
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by yycflyguy »

cdnpilot77 wrote:
yycflyguy wrote:Does everyone realize the stringent alcohol rules in the UK? If you have two or three drinks 13 hours before flight there is a very good chance you will be over the 20mg of alcohol/100ml limit. That is four times more stringent than operating a vehicle. Not condoning their actions but many are insinuating that they pounded a few drinks right before work.

Do they have not still have the obligation to report fit for duty regardless of how stringent the local law is?
Yes they do.

There is no information out there that they were "Blotto" like the papers reported. In the UK, even if you blow over on the breathalyzer, charges cannot be made until a blood sample has been pulled (hours later), sent to a lab and analyzed. Results won't be known for a couple of weeks. So until then, I will give them the benefit of the doubt.
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yycflyguy
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by yycflyguy »

garfield wrote:Well if they were acting odd I'm sure they weren't just hangover.

95% of pilots I know are heavy drinkers, but they drink when they're OFF for the next 24 hours at least.
Ever had a wicked hangover? Odds are after 24 hours you would still be over the limit in the UK.
AuxBatOn wrote:
Gino Under wrote: In this case however, it sounds like the Fu*kup Fairy may have waved her wand at a most inappropriate time.
I am glad they got caught before they killed people. Such behaviour does not merit the privilege of holding any pilot license, nevermind an ATPL. Talk about decision making...
Again, not justifying the situation but guys are coming off as judge, jury and executioner before charges have even been laid.

You guys have heard of false positives, right?
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yycflyguy
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by yycflyguy »

Old fella wrote:
yycflyguy wrote:Does everyone realize the stringent alcohol rules in the UK? If you have two or three drinks 13 hours before flight there is a very good chance you will be over the 20mg of alcohol/100ml limit. That is four times more stringent than operating a vehicle. Not condoning their actions but many are insinuating that they pounded a few drinks right before work.
Certainly an element of truth in that, I would assume they would consult qualified lawyers for legal assistance.
My understanding is that ALPA has already provided legal representation. They will probably be allowed to return home until the lab results are known.
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by AuxBatOn »

yycflyguy wrote: Again, not justifying the situation but guys are coming off as judge, jury and executioner before charges have even been laid.
If some of your co-workers and peers (not some random joe at the airport) came forward and said something is wrong, I would suspect it would take something fairly serious. Oh, they have been charged.

2 false positives (one on the breathalizer and one with the bloodwork) on 2 different people? Ya right. Your freedom stops where it encroaches on mine. I am all for being considered innocent until proven guilty, but sometimes, circumstances strongly suggest wrongdoing.
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by AuxBatOn »

yycflyguy wrote: Again, not justifying the situation but guys are coming off as judge, jury and executioner before charges have even been laid.
If some of your co-workers and peers (not some random joe at the airport) came forward and said something is wrong, I would suspect it would take something fairly serious. Oh, they have been charged.

2 false positives (one on the breathalizer and one with the bloodwork) on 2 different people? Ya right. Your freedom stops where it encroaches on mine. I am all for being considered innocent until proven guilty, but sometimes, circumstances strongly suggest wrongdoing. If it looks like a duck, walk like a duck and quawk like a duck....
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yycflyguy
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by yycflyguy »

I guess you didn't read the part where the bloodworm samples have to go to a lab. That result is admissible. I just read that they are being detained on the "threatening or abusive behaviour" charge. So they will be held until the lab results come back.

What if it comes back that the blood levels were high enough to trip the breathalyzer 0.009% but not enough to satisfy the court 0.04%, are they still a duck?
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by AuxBatOn »

yycflyguy wrote:I guess you didn't read the part where the bloodworm samples have to go to a lab. That result is admissible. I just read that they are being detained on the "threatening or abusive behaviour" charge. So they will be held until the lab results come back.

What if it comes back that the blood levels were high enough to trip the breathalyzer 0.009% but not enough to satisfy the court 0.04%, are they still a duck?
People, from their own crew, judged they were acting oddly and weren't fit to fly, to the point they called law enforcement. Yes, they would still look like ducks. Impairement is far more than a number. If you can't tone down the booze when you are working, especially when people's lives at ar stake, you shouldn't be doing that job.
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yycflyguy
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Re: Pilots and Alcohol

Post by yycflyguy »

AuxBatOn wrote: Impairement is far more than a number.
That's exactly my point.
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