If your pilot dies you are gonna die ;)

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timel
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If your pilot dies you are gonna die ;)

#1 Post by timel » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:27 pm

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white_knuckle_flyer
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Re: If your pilot dies you are gonna die ;)

#2 Post by white_knuckle_flyer » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:50 pm

Yeah you're probably right, but aside from that, how reasonable are the instructions ? Is a controlled crash possible ?

Also, if the likelihood of Joe Schmoe landing a heli without any experience is about 1%, what would you say would be the probability for someone who could at least fly a Cessna ? Is there any transfer of skills at all ?
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Heliian
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Re: If your pilot dies you are gonna die ;)

#3 Post by Heliian » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:55 pm

Maybe not though... there was an accident years ago where an overdue helicopter was found crashed but relatively intact in a remote area. The pilot had passed due to natural causes while flying solo and the a/c just descended and impacted the ground in such a way that it would have been easily survivable, kind of like a run-on crash landing.
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I_Drive_Planes
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Re: If your pilot dies you are gonna die ;)

#4 Post by I_Drive_Planes » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:52 am

Unfortunately the vast majority of helicopters that I ride around on have the passenger side controls removed so if the pilot croaks so does everyone else on board.
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fijdor
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Re: If your pilot dies you are gonna die ;)

#5 Post by fijdor » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:10 am

I_Drive_Planes wrote:Unfortunately the vast majority of helicopters that I ride around on have the passenger side controls removed so if the pilot croaks so does everyone else on board.
That's right. Also there was an accident in South America (Canadian Aircraft though) were the pilot died at the control during a slow approach to a landing, nobody on board noticed that the pilot was dead and the Astar went in, hit the ground in a shallow descent and gentle turn at about 60 knots. The 3 passengers survived the crash and the reason why is, they never touched the controls not knowing what was happening but realized at the last second only that something was wrong.

JD
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Schooner69A
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Re: If your pilot dies you are gonna die ;)

#6 Post by Schooner69A » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:22 pm

Considering that I started helicopter training as a long-in-the-tooth fixed wing pilot, I would rate the chances of a successful ending to such a scenario to be near zero.

And that's the truth, too. (Edith Ann)
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co-joe
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Re: If your pilot dies you are gonna die ;)

#7 Post by co-joe » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:54 am

I have about 2 minutes of R/W time in cruise and it flew exactly like an aeroplane. I never touched the collective, mind you. Let's say you had F/W experience, and someone one the radio to talk you through the landing is there a survivable situation? Head for water and jump?
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Re: If your pilot dies you are gonna die ;)

#8 Post by cgzro » Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:10 pm

I think it would be rather unlikely unless the passenger had a fair amount of knowledge and was used to operating sensitive machinery. I flew an R22 for an hour or so a few years ago for the first time. I had 1000hrs tail dragger time and lots or R/C helicopter time. I found it challenging but not impossible. Forward/turning flight was pretty normal so I would have definitely been able to get to within a few hundred meters of where I wanted to, but could I have put it down without killing myself ?Hard to guess and certainly 50/50 or worse odds. Now after an hour I was able to land, hover and even back-up although not with any great precision but to learn within a few seconds... odds are the pax would be dead or at least wrapped up in the spinning wreckage as it caught a rotor.

Certainly much higher odds of death than if the pilot of a small fixed wing dies on you.
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Re: If your pilot dies you are gonna die ;)

#9 Post by godsrcrazy » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:06 pm

I have had some time on a helicopter. I would personally would not try to hover it. As co-joe said in forward flight the helicopter reacts a lot like an airplane. I have watch these guys doing auto rotations and run on landings. Because they fly a lot like a l=plane in forward flight i would think one could find their way to a flat open area. Personally i would try a run on landing at low forward speed. However in todays days of CAR's etc it is becoming illegal to have dual controls unless you are operating a 2 crew environment. Chances of flying with a set of duals in are getting slim to zero.

So in short if a Helicopter pilot becomes incopacitated you will die with no duals in it.
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Re: If your pilot dies you are gonna die ;)

#10 Post by fijdor » Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:22 am

I am going toward 16,000 hrs on helicopters and sometimes, I ask myself how I have been able to survive the last landing. lol
But I think with luck it could be done if the pax keeps his cool.

FD
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Re: If your pilot dies you are gonna die ;)

#11 Post by C-GKNT » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:08 pm

godsrcrazy wrote:...
However in todays days of CAR's etc it is becoming illegal to have dual controls unless you are operating a 2 crew environment. Chances of flying with a set of duals in are getting slim to zero.

So in short if a Helicopter pilot becomes incopacitated you will die with no duals in it.
I had this discussion (debate?) with my examiner on my commercial ride. To the best of my knowledge, there is nothing in the CARS regarding dual controls. There is a restriction in the Robinson's POHs (and possibly others) to effect that dual controls must be removed for non-instructional flights with a passenger. However, the POH for my helicopter does not so there is nothing preventing me from leaving my dual controls in place. He called me a few days later to tell me that he agreed with me.

I have let numerous people try the controls in my helicopter. I agree with what has been said here, an airplane pilot *might* be OK in cruise but near the ground they aren't going to make it. With or without dual controls, if I die while we are flying, you are going to die as well :|

Glenn
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Re: If your pilot dies you are gonna die ;)

#12 Post by Nark » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:14 am

I had a few thousand hours of fixed wing time before heading to rotary flight school.

The first time hovering was like trying to balance a bowling ball on a baseball.

In cruise it's, for the most part, identical to fixed wing flying. Once you slow down below a certain speed you need to know how to hover. Even with dual controls, you're most likely going to crash.

You're best bet, as mentioned, is to find a runway and land it like a plane. Skids or wheels, doesn't matter.
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