Air Canada Pool

[Jimmy2]

What should one do regarding Regional job application if you are still waiting for the phone interview from Mainline? I was told to expect a phone interview in 12 months (if nothing changes). That was about 6 months ago. I see Sky Regional advertising for Embraer F/O positions which wouldn't be a bad job. But if I go there what happens with my Air Canada application? Do I get sent to the bottom of the PML pile? What would you guys do? Just wait 6 more months and then make a decision?

[altiplano]

a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush...

take the best job you can get - you will out-strategize yourself if you overthink it.

[Jimmy2]

Well I'm not really strategizing too much. I'm just wondering if joining an Air Canada regional airline sends you to the bottom of the PML list. If so I'd be better off just waiting ≤6 months and trying my chances at an interview, no? I'm not currently unemployed.

[schnitzel2k3]

I would think, as long as you don't update your application with AC, they would treat it as OTS.

If I were unemployed, I would take SR, interview with AC, do my two years at SR or at least have an open conversation with them about your AC application.

Good luck.

S.

[mbav8r]

I would think, as long as you don't update your application with AC, they would treat it as OTS.

If I were unemployed, I would take SR, interview with AC, do my two years at SR or at least have an open conversation with them about your AC application.

Good luck.

S.

That's some bad advice! If you don't update you application, that's the same as lying, big risk to take.
To answer your question, yes, you would move to the bottom of the list. As for what you should do, thats a tough one. Without knowing your background and education, it's tough to gauge what your chances are if you wait for the interview at AC, which by the way even if successful could mean another year before you get hired. The plan going forward for AC is 80% PML, 20% OTS and I'm not sure they've depleted the current pool of OTS pilots.
You could wait and hope you make it but keep in mind that there will be approximately 150 new hire Jazz pilots over the next 8 months, all will be part of the next PML not to mention the ones hired at SR and GGN.
A lot depends on you current job, would you be happy to wait there for another year or so?

[Jimmy2]

Thanks. So how long could a new hire at an Air Canada regional expect to wait to move over via PML? Is there a minimum time you have to stay? You mentioned 2 years.

[dialdriver]

I would think, as long as you don't update your application with AC, they would treat it as OTS.


S.

That's some bad advice! If you don't update you application, that's the same as lying, big risk to take.

I cannot find any way to update my application, after having received notice on an OTS interview within 12 months. How do you do it?

[Wacko]

When you are at one of the express factions you are on a different path than outside hires. There are a bunch of factors but it comes down to seniority.

I think the problem AC is going to have is that if they don't hire enough guys from Express, guys will stop coming to the likes ok AG or SKY. If they do hire guys from Express..... good luck getting in from anywhere else.... pool or otherwise...

Interesting times ahead

[cdnpilot77]

Let's not forget that a position at a regional does not guarantee a seat at Big Red. It merely gets you on an interview list at some point assuming the music doesn't stop.

Moving to a regional that you wouldn't be happy making a career at, if you get pfo'd from AC, if you're leaving a job you're happy with now, is a risk.

[goingnowherefast]

Are regionals going to see a "quitting wave" of people that get PFO'd from Big Red?

[PositiveRate27]

Are regionals going to see a "quitting wave" of people that get PFO'd from Big Red?

I can't speak for everyone, but the majority of the "young" people I talk to from Jazz all intend to leave for the vacation carriers, sandbox or China if AC doesn't work out for them.

[infiniteregulus]

There was a solid exodus at Georgian at the beginning of the year when everyone left right and centre were being PFOd

[Kosiw]

Are regionals going to see a "quitting wave" of people that get PFO'd from Big Red?

I can't speak for everyone, but the majority of the "young" people I talk to from Jazz all intend to leave for the vacation carriers, sandbox or China if AC doesn't work out for them.

This is probably a reason why Jazz signed agreements with various puppy mill aviation colleges around the country the past few years, to keep themselves supplied with a steady flow of 250 hr f/o's to replace those who get pfo'd or move onto AC. This way they won't have to do what regionals in the states have been forced to do....namely paying more $$$ to attract talent.

[TheStig]

This is probably a reason why Jazz signed agreements with various puppy mill aviation colleges around the country the past few years, to keep themselves supplied with a steady flow of 250 hr f/o's to replace those who get pfo'd or move onto AC. This way they won't have to do what regionals in the states have been forced to do....namely paying more $$$ to attract talent.

Agreed, The US regionals are finding out what dollar figures it takes to lure more experienced Pilots. What concerns me in Canada is how no one seems to acknowledge why the 1500 hour rule was implemented in the US, namely, a rash of accidents with the Colgan crash in BUF being the last straw.

Regional Airlines in Canada have never had an issue recruiting pilots with >1500hrs (until lately) and have an excellent safety record. I'm not privy to the resumes of the pilots joining the 705 operations at Jazz, Sky Regional, Air Georgian, Porter, Pacific Coastal, Perimeter and Encore, but I have seen the huge numbers of experienced Captains flowing through to AC on the PML and wondering who is filling all those seats. Is it time for TC to mandate Airline Transport Licenses for every airline pilot? I don't have the answers, should we wait and see how things play out? Have there been any fatal accidents in the US since the 1500 hour rule was implemented? There seemed to be one annually in the decade leading up to it.

http://www.sullysullenberger.com/my-tes ... -security/

[Inverted2]

I think you'll see quite a few Jazz PFOees go to SW and Transat once they start hiring again. WJ isn't even an option now. If you go you'll be behind several hundred Encore pilots and not see a left seat for years and years. If you have some seniority Jazz is a good place to be. I feel bad for the younger guys at the regionals who got turned down at AC. Tough spot to be in.

[Old fella]

I do have a question , just as an observer to this conversation. Why would AC reject applicants from JAZZ( I assume that's what PFO means), one would think guys/gals at JAZZ certainly have the qualifications and experience. They fly many of the same routes/WX/airports as AC domestic and certainly have background in airline operations. I would have thought those are the candidates That would be most desirable. I am beginning to think as of late, airlines are getting to be a strange business.

[infiniteregulus]

Sully says it best

[Jimmy2]

I'm not sure if it's been posted already but I noticed that the degree/aviation college diploma is now in the job requirements list on the website under desirable qualifications.

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/caree ... ilots.html

[Wacko]

The interesting thing is.... I believe Delta will now hire directly from the feeders without interviews.

I agree with you Old Fella. Given everything else being equal, and in any industry, you'd think it would make most sense to hire from "within".

If nothing else, you would probably have better transparency with regard to abilities and potential. It would also probably save a few bucks not having to do all the testing and probeing.

[altiplano]

I'm not sure if it's been posted already but I noticed that the degree/aviation college diploma is now in the job requirements list on the website under desirable qualifications.

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/caree ... ilots.html

It always has been in the desirable box, but it still isn't an absolute requirement...

[Saxub]

I would think, as long as you don't update your application with AC, they would treat it as OTS.

If I were unemployed, I would take SR, interview with AC, do my two years at SR or at least have an open conversation with them about your AC application.

Good luck.

S.

It might be worth it to see if you can get into contact with someone at HR. Either by phone, email or even LinkedIn. I'm sure they would be able to clear things up for you.

[Duke p]

I do have a question , just as an observer to this conversation. Why would AC reject applicants from JAZZ( I assume that's what PFO means), one would think guys/gals at JAZZ certainly have the qualifications and experience. They fly many of the same routes/WX/airports as AC domestic and certainly have background in airline operations. I would have thought those are the candidates That would be most desirable. I am beginning to think as of late, airlines are getting to be a strange business.

There are a lot of reasons applicants from the Jazz PML are rejected. Former disciplinary action, general work attendance, a "don't hire that guy" from a current AC pilot, suspicious book-offs, an "internal non-referral" from Jazz management, (yes some do answer to AC). I wouldn't question it for a second if someone were to mention AC sent over a few managers to do a little "personal investigating" well in advance of the PML contract even being signed.

In a lot of cases, the only determining factor is the interview. Pointed and some subtle questions are asked about the candidates ability to work well with former Jazz First Officers, who are now well above them on the seniority list. It's pretty easy to see if a candidate is harbouring a form of resentment, either about not being hired earlier, or about the former merger issue of the early 90's. Attitude....fail that in any way, and no thanks.

The bottom line is that it's not just about "experience", as it's already a given.

DP.

[Old fella]

"There are a lot of reasons applicants from the Jazz PML are rejected. Former disciplinary action, general work attendance, a "don't hire that guy" from a current AC pilot, suspicious book-offs, an "internal non-referral" from Jazz management, (yes some do answer to AC). I wouldn't question it for a second if someone were to mention AC sent over a few managers to do a little "personal investigating" well in advance of the PML contract even being signed.

In a lot of cases, the only determining factor is the interview. Pointed and some subtle questions are asked about the candidates ability to work well with former Jazz First Officers, who are now well above them on the seniority list. It's pretty easy to see if a candidate is harbouring a form of resentment, either about not being hired earlier, or about the former merger issue of the early 90's. Attitude....fail that in any way, and no thanks.

The bottom line is that it's not just about "experience", as it's already a given."



Agreed. I should have qualified my commentary with" all things being equal, personal suitability etc." Reading between the lines on some of the post on this subject, I get the impression(subject to correction, of course) AC has rejected a number of JAZZ applicants

[gimmepars]

My thought is to stay put until after the anticipated AC interview. If you get the job, great, if not, head to an express carrier for another chance to interview at AC via the PML. I'm in the same boat.

Cheers

What should one do regarding Regional job application if you are still waiting for the phone interview from Mainline? I was told to expect a phone interview in 12 months (if nothing changes). That was about 6 months ago. I see Sky Regional advertising for Embraer F/O positions which wouldn't be a bad job. But if I go there what happens with my Air Canada application? Do I get sent to the bottom of the PML pile? What would you guys do? Just wait 6 more months and then make a decision?

[AOW]

My thought is to stay put until after the anticipated AC interview. If you get the job, great, if not, head to an express carrier for another chance to interview at AC via the PML. I'm in the same boat.

No! I want as little competition as possible for the OTS positions!

On that note, has anyone who got the "we expect to contact you sometime within the next 12 months to invite you for a phone interview" email received said phone interview? I know I haven't, but maybe someone else has.