How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

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shivam282
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How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#1 Post by shivam282 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:41 pm

I have recently heard lots of people saying that since all AC Mainline planes are equipped with iPads in Flight Deck, there isn't much math for the pilot to do in his/her head(not like the olden days where everything was done in the head or on paper), is this true? Also, how much math is used before, during, and after the flights? What kind of math is it, and some example problems would be greatly appreciated. Is there any "on the spot" math equations and problems that you have to do without calculators, paper, pencil, iPads? I would like to hear from an AC Mainline pilot. Thank You.
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#2 Post by bobcaygeon » Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:15 pm

shivam282 wrote:I have recently heard lots of people saying that since all AC Mainline planes are equipped with iPads in Flight Deck, there isn't much math for the pilot to do in his/her head(not like the olden days where everything was done in the head or on paper), is this true? Also, how much math is used before, during, and after the flights? What kind of math is it, and some example problems would be greatly appreciated. Is there any "on the spot" math equations and problems that you have to do without calculators, paper, pencil, iPads? I would like to hear from an AC Mainline pilot. Thank You.

The only math you do is calculating how to bid your month so you work the least and get the days off you want, how many years until you can hold captain with a decent schedule, and when you can retire with a decent pension after giving 1/2 of everything to your X (t-x being the unknown variable).
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#3 Post by photofly » Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:17 pm

I'm fairly sure that an amount of mental arithmetic is required to estimate how long till you can upgrade, and what your paycheque is likely to be this month. Couldn't give you any examples though.

Edit: beat me to it by mere seconds!
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#4 Post by ZBBYLW » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:42 pm

Sometimes hard math does pop up, figuring out what your cruise temp will be when you have to add or subtract the deviation component prior to coffee completely flowing through your vanes at 0'dark thirty during pre flight.

Also if your ACARS takes a dump and you have to take your off and on time and you have to actually manually come up with your air time for the log book, at 3 am your body clock time. It can sometimes grind the hamster wheel to a stop.

Block growth calculations are more simple as you practice that more.
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#5 Post by jd832 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:46 am

shivam282 wrote:I have recently heard lots of people saying that since all AC Mainline planes are equipped with iPads in Flight Deck, there isn't much math for the pilot to do in his/her head(not like the olden days where everything was done in the head or on paper), is this true? Also, how much math is used before, during, and after the flights? What kind of math is it, and some example problems would be greatly appreciated. Is there any "on the spot" math equations and problems that you have to do without calculators, paper, pencil, iPads? I would like to hear from an AC Mainline pilot. Thank You.
As airline pilots we use the big four. Multiplication, division, addition and subtraction.

1.We use it in weight and balance although the major stuff is calculated by W&B programs by load control or ACARS programs. We just do a quick mental math verification to make sure it checks out correct. Some airlines still do it old school with load and trim sheets, graphs, and a calculator. (ex. Sunwing until recently)

2.We use mental math for top of descent planing as a backup to the FMC's TOD calculation.

3.We use math to calculate our BINGO fuel for diverting when in holding patterns and various other fuel critical situations.

4.We do fuel check on long flights as a back up to the flight plan to monitor our fuel burn and arrival fuel.

5.We use it for calculating holdover times for de-icing during winter ops.

6..We use math sometimes on long duty days when max duty and min rest may be jeopardized to calculate legalities in regards to the crew being legal to continue because you can't always rely on crew scheduling.

etc....
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#6 Post by altiplano » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:22 am

A lot of the math you do is the quick and dirty type...

You don't need to know to the decimal everything you may be calculating, but if you're going through a landing distance performance chart for example in an abnormal situation you may not want to spend a ton of time calculating to the foot what you need, rather you want to be confident to work through it quickly and get in the ballpark of what you need.
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#7 Post by tallyho » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:07 am

Strong mental math abilities allow you to quickly check and analyze numbers. Whether its fuel calcs, duty days, W&B, your credit card statement, having the ability to quickly do it in your head lets you analyze and spot mistakes. If I had to pull out a calculator every time I probably wouldn't verify anything.
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#8 Post by shivam282 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:29 pm

tallyho wrote:Strong mental math abilities allow you to quickly check and analyze numbers. Whether its fuel calcs, duty days, W&B, your credit card statement, having the ability to quickly do it in your head lets you analyze and spot mistakes. If I had to pull out a calculator every time I probably wouldn't verify anything.
Is it necessary to have strong mental math abilities? Do they look for that in Interviews for Air Canada?
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#9 Post by shivam282 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:31 pm

ZBBYLW wrote:Sometimes hard math does pop up, figuring out what your cruise temp will be when you have to add or subtract the deviation component prior to coffee completely flowing through your vanes at 0'dark thirty during pre flight.

Also if your ACARS takes a dump and you have to take your off and on time and you have to actually manually come up with your air time for the log book, at 3 am your body clock time. It can sometimes grind the hamster wheel to a stop.

Block growth calculations are more simple as you practice that more.
But if your ACARS does mess up and you do have to calculate air time manually would you be allowed to use a calculator?
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#10 Post by PostmasterGeneral » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:29 pm

shivam282 wrote:
tallyho wrote:Strong mental math abilities allow you to quickly check and analyze numbers. Whether its fuel calcs, duty days, W&B, your credit card statement, having the ability to quickly do it in your head lets you analyze and spot mistakes. If I had to pull out a calculator every time I probably wouldn't verify anything.
Is it necessary to have strong mental math abilities? Do they look for that in Interviews for Air Canada?
What the hell is your obsession with mental math? You've posted in 4 threads today worried about it...
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#11 Post by cdnpilot77 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:58 am

shivam282 wrote:
ZBBYLW wrote:Sometimes hard math does pop up, figuring out what your cruise temp will be when you have to add or subtract the deviation component prior to coffee completely flowing through your vanes at 0'dark thirty during pre flight.

Also if your ACARS takes a dump and you have to take your off and on time and you have to actually manually come up with your air time for the log book, at 3 am your body clock time. It can sometimes grind the hamster wheel to a stop.

Block growth calculations are more simple as you practice that more.
But if your ACARS does mess up and you do have to calculate air time manually would you be allowed to use a calculator?

Am I missing a joke here somewhere?
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#12 Post by Taxivasion » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:30 am

If you're this concerned about Math in an airplane do the industry a favour and get a job at Mc D's with one of those automated change machines...

smh
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#13 Post by Duke p » Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:24 am

Math is only done by the FO....if it sounds "about right", Ill agree. :)

Duke.
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#14 Post by '97 Tercel » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:57 pm

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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#15 Post by Dockjock » Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:51 am

Basic math is an easy screening tool in hiring. No, there isn't a ton of math on the job anymore but there is some, and what math there is its best to have people who are able to complete it quickly. When you're faced with many candidates for a job, omitting ones who literally can't do any math is an easy choice.
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#16 Post by complexintentions » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:29 pm

I'm pretty sure Air Canada pilots use mathematics on the job every day. Unless of course, they no longer use those things called "numbers" to quantify things like distance, speed, weight, fuel, etc.

If you're worried about the hiring process, relax. HR departments believe that feelings, anecdotes and "lived experiences" are much more important that objective truth, so perhaps they've just done away with such nonsense as math?
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#17 Post by ZBBYLW » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:26 am

If you're so concerned about your lack of ability in mental math why don't you try and work on it? If you're a self starter there are a ton of online resources. If you're not, hire a tutor or take classes. Start including math in your day to day life.. when tipping a waitress tip a dollar amount and have a goal made up of what you want the total to be.. an even number? Perhaps something else like if you're Chinese and your bill is 80 bucks go for 88.88, if you're into the devil and your bill is 60 bucks 66.66, if you like numbers make you're bill 123.45 etc or what ever you want. But start using mental math every part of your life.
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#18 Post by complexintentions » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:09 pm

That's actually really good advice (unlike mine previously).

One small thing I do while waiting in the checkout lineup is mentally add up my purchases and see how close to the cent I can get to the total before they're rung in. If you're feeling cocky, try and calculate the sales tax too.

Who says I'm not a party kind of guy.
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#19 Post by gofly » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:07 pm

Math anxiety is a thing. For the life of me can't figure out why, math seems so easy compared to things like HR BS or the nightmare that is networking (often consisting of junior pilots desperately sucking up to anyone who's flown anything heavier than 2000 lbs), but some people are tremendously afflicted.

I suspect you don't need to be a math genius to fly for AC or anywhere else. It helps if you can estimate, so you don't end up with answers like "45,274.8 feet required for landing" or "37.2 minutes ETE and 33.778 lbs estimated fuel burn" for YYZ - YVR trip or "we need to turn 7,205 degrees right now to intercept localizer". Knowing pounds from kilos might come in handy too. ;)
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#20 Post by mbav8r » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:10 am

Wow gofly that's some interesting estimating you did, 45,000 feet, no runway anywhere that long, and 37 mins with a 33 lb fuel burn Toronto to Vancouver, holy crap that's impressive. How many 360 degree turn in 7205 degrees for intercept, answer "AC 2345678901, I need you to make twenty 360 turns, umm left to intercept the loc"
Anyway, thanks for the chuckle!
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#21 Post by geneticistx » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:30 am

Taxivasion wrote:If you're this concerned about Math in an airplane do the industry a favour and get a job at Mc D's with one of those automated change machines...

smh
Math is hard.
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#22 Post by land3 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:15 pm

[/quote] Math is hard. [/quote]


....didn't Justin Trudeau say that?
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#23 Post by Inverted2 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:18 am

land3 wrote:
Math is hard. [/quote]


....didn't Justin Trudeau say that?[/quote]

He inherited his mothers brains so likely yes. 8)
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Re: How often do Air Canada Mainline Pilots use Mathematics on the job?

#24 Post by 1000islander » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:02 am

how much math is used before, during, and after the flights?
Mostly, it is used when inbound to Newfoundland stations, trying to give accurate eta in local time :?
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