Ever try to get a conversion in a foriegn country and find out that the conversion process is really to do the ENTIRE course all over again?
Try CAA to FAA...
Whats involved... How about all 3 written exams and all 4 flight tests...Some conversion...
And dont even bother going to India... Tell Mr. Baila and Mrs. Lankanpath at the DGCA to go @#$! themselves...
Conversion Anyone?
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complexintentions
- Rank 10
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huh?
I converted my TC ATPL to FAA ATP, it required:
-medical - extra $40 on top of my TC Cat 1 fee, did 'em both at the same time (of course, the FAA needs one every 6 month to remain current)
-wrote 1 exam, the Part 121 ATP, after doing self-study computer-based course. Course cost: $80 CDN. Exam cost: $80 USD.
-ride. Did a FAA oral and checkride during my usual sim ride, which was in the states on a bizjet. Basically the FAA inspector sat in on the TC ride, when TC was satisfied the FAA guy had me do a few more maneuvers. Done. Cost: none to me.
On the other hand, now I'm trying to convert my TC ATPL to a JAA (UK) ATPL. Holy mother of gawd the frickin' Brits!!! I have to do a full groundschool course (I'm exempt from having to do a set minimum of hours) but the cheapest distance course is about $1900 USD. Then I have to sit 14 (W.T.F., over?!) exams at about $75USD each!! And have to either go to Florida or the UK to do so. Then off to the UK for a medical: about 600 GBP I'm told (not including GETTING to jolly old England wot). Then it's training and a ride in an a/c approved for minimum two crew. Who the hell knows how much THAT will cost!
So:
TC to FAA = a couple hundred bucks.
TC to JAA = I'll be lucky to get it done for under 15k CDN. And THAT's only because I qualify for a couple of key exemptions based on experience.
So pardon me if I'm not to open to hearing whining from someone trying to go the OTHER way - the JAA is protectionism, pure and simple. ICAO my ass....hey if you have a CAA license already, why do you want an FAA? Besides, I thought most British pilots got their licenses by getting an FAA first and then converting it - it's still cheaper than doing all the training in the UK!!
I converted my TC ATPL to FAA ATP, it required:
-medical - extra $40 on top of my TC Cat 1 fee, did 'em both at the same time (of course, the FAA needs one every 6 month to remain current)
-wrote 1 exam, the Part 121 ATP, after doing self-study computer-based course. Course cost: $80 CDN. Exam cost: $80 USD.
-ride. Did a FAA oral and checkride during my usual sim ride, which was in the states on a bizjet. Basically the FAA inspector sat in on the TC ride, when TC was satisfied the FAA guy had me do a few more maneuvers. Done. Cost: none to me.
On the other hand, now I'm trying to convert my TC ATPL to a JAA (UK) ATPL. Holy mother of gawd the frickin' Brits!!! I have to do a full groundschool course (I'm exempt from having to do a set minimum of hours) but the cheapest distance course is about $1900 USD. Then I have to sit 14 (W.T.F., over?!) exams at about $75USD each!! And have to either go to Florida or the UK to do so. Then off to the UK for a medical: about 600 GBP I'm told (not including GETTING to jolly old England wot). Then it's training and a ride in an a/c approved for minimum two crew. Who the hell knows how much THAT will cost!
So:
TC to FAA = a couple hundred bucks.
TC to JAA = I'll be lucky to get it done for under 15k CDN. And THAT's only because I qualify for a couple of key exemptions based on experience.
So pardon me if I'm not to open to hearing whining from someone trying to go the OTHER way - the JAA is protectionism, pure and simple. ICAO my ass....hey if you have a CAA license already, why do you want an FAA? Besides, I thought most British pilots got their licenses by getting an FAA first and then converting it - it's still cheaper than doing all the training in the UK!!
complexintentions:
I'm curious as to where the distance learning is offered and I may have my numbers mixed up but thought it was about $175 per exam?? I know the exams can be done in Orlando but again as you mentioned you have to overseas for the Medical (as far as I know). Not sure about the ride though, I was quoted that I wouldn't need a ride, then again my exemptions could be different based on current experience. I know my ATP and 500hrs Multi-Crew in an A/C over 12.5lbs excempt me from a few of the requirements.
LJD
I'm curious as to where the distance learning is offered and I may have my numbers mixed up but thought it was about $175 per exam?? I know the exams can be done in Orlando but again as you mentioned you have to overseas for the Medical (as far as I know). Not sure about the ride though, I was quoted that I wouldn't need a ride, then again my exemptions could be different based on current experience. I know my ATP and 500hrs Multi-Crew in an A/C over 12.5lbs excempt me from a few of the requirements.
LJD
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complexintentions
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The school and course I refer to is this one http://www.nacgroundschool.com/dlcourse.htm. If you scroll down the page it lists the approximate cost per exam as $75...don't know how they arrived at that figure?
Initial medical must be done in UK, subsequent renewals are ok elsewhere.
Pretty sure the only way to get exempted from the ride is if you have "A minimum of 3,000 hours as pilot of public transport aircraft over 30,000 kgs MTWA on scheduled international or similar routes, a minimum of 1,500 hours of which must have been as Pilot-in-Command.".
Ouch.
As far as the ride, I think it can be done anywhere...as long as there's a CAA inspector there! Can't see it being cheaper bringing one somewhere here, than to go there.
The only advantages of the >500 hours are:
-no requirement for a set amount of groundschool hours. So you can study till you feel ready, pass the NAC inhouse pre-tests, then they'll admit you to sit the real ones.
-no requirement for a "MCC" (Multi-Crew Coordination, I think?) course.
-similar to the groundschool, no formal minimum training required prior to the ride, only to a standard to satisfy an instructor you're ready.
All of this info is to the best of my knowledge after extensive research, if I'm wrong, my apologies. And none of it even addresses the immigration aspect of working in the EU. Hope it helps!
Initial medical must be done in UK, subsequent renewals are ok elsewhere.
Pretty sure the only way to get exempted from the ride is if you have "A minimum of 3,000 hours as pilot of public transport aircraft over 30,000 kgs MTWA on scheduled international or similar routes, a minimum of 1,500 hours of which must have been as Pilot-in-Command.".
Ouch.
As far as the ride, I think it can be done anywhere...as long as there's a CAA inspector there! Can't see it being cheaper bringing one somewhere here, than to go there.
The only advantages of the >500 hours are:
-no requirement for a set amount of groundschool hours. So you can study till you feel ready, pass the NAC inhouse pre-tests, then they'll admit you to sit the real ones.
-no requirement for a "MCC" (Multi-Crew Coordination, I think?) course.
-similar to the groundschool, no formal minimum training required prior to the ride, only to a standard to satisfy an instructor you're ready.
All of this info is to the best of my knowledge after extensive research, if I'm wrong, my apologies. And none of it even addresses the immigration aspect of working in the EU. Hope it helps!
Just to clarify
The initial UK medical if you have a foreign Class 1 is 250GBP, not 600GBP. The exams cost 55GBP each (14 of them). If you have a type rating, and can find a company to do IR ride in their sim during the PPC, then as long as the CAA are present to observe, voila you have a UK ATPL. If you have 500 hours multi crew(UK definition of Multi crew) then you can get an exemption to the MCC course.
I am finishing the conversion. With hotel and airfare in Orlando during exams cost is closer to $7000 Canadian.
Just remeber, for most Europeans, the first thing they fly is a 737 or A320. None of this float bullshit, or twin time crap you get over here.
The payoff is worth the effort for the JAA conversion as long as you have a right to live and work in Europe. I don't think I'll be coming back.
Regards
UKBound
The initial UK medical if you have a foreign Class 1 is 250GBP, not 600GBP. The exams cost 55GBP each (14 of them). If you have a type rating, and can find a company to do IR ride in their sim during the PPC, then as long as the CAA are present to observe, voila you have a UK ATPL. If you have 500 hours multi crew(UK definition of Multi crew) then you can get an exemption to the MCC course.
I am finishing the conversion. With hotel and airfare in Orlando during exams cost is closer to $7000 Canadian.
Just remeber, for most Europeans, the first thing they fly is a 737 or A320. None of this float bullshit, or twin time crap you get over here.
The payoff is worth the effort for the JAA conversion as long as you have a right to live and work in Europe. I don't think I'll be coming back.
Regards
UKBound
I'm not sure what you mean by float or twin crap. Every hour in your logbook should be gained experience. I don't think it matters what plane your flying.
There are a few jobs around in Europe for low time pilots. These pilots are coming straight out of Oxford or equivelent at the top of their class. They are also required to pay around 200,000 canadian for their Lic's. They are then hired on to fly 737's or 320's signed to a large bond and they sit in the right seat for a long time.
If you are not from that country I think you will have a hard time finding work. Most people hired at any company are from internal references and if you don't have any your fighting an uphill battle.
Best of luck though
There are a few jobs around in Europe for low time pilots. These pilots are coming straight out of Oxford or equivelent at the top of their class. They are also required to pay around 200,000 canadian for their Lic's. They are then hired on to fly 737's or 320's signed to a large bond and they sit in the right seat for a long time.
If you are not from that country I think you will have a hard time finding work. Most people hired at any company are from internal references and if you don't have any your fighting an uphill battle.
Best of luck though
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blue_side_up
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I agree with Whipline, all previous experience is good. I think that light piston/turbine twin experience I got gave me a much stronger background. The guys in Europe who go straight onto jets never had the good fortune of doing an NDB approach to minimums in a snowstorm with a crappy ADF. If they only knew what they'd missed... 
The conversion to a UK ATPL cost me about $30K Cdn about 4yrs ago. That was with a number of exemptions.
As far as the MCC is concerned, you can get a waiver on it if you have 500+ hrs on a 'two-crew' aircraft. That includes a light-twin if your company ops manual says it MUST be flown 2-crew all the time.
Working in Europe almost always requires an EU passport. If you've got that, and the license, the opportunites can be fantastic.
The conversion to a UK ATPL cost me about $30K Cdn about 4yrs ago. That was with a number of exemptions.
As far as the MCC is concerned, you can get a waiver on it if you have 500+ hrs on a 'two-crew' aircraft. That includes a light-twin if your company ops manual says it MUST be flown 2-crew all the time.
Working in Europe almost always requires an EU passport. If you've got that, and the license, the opportunites can be fantastic.
I totally agree with bue side up. If You have the right to work in Europe and the desire to obtain JAA ATPL licences, then Europe has good employment/income prospects for Pilots. Yes the flying was fun in Canada but the pay was unacceptably low. As time spend in the right seat one can generally state that promotions from right to left are indeed faster with charter operators (especially single or two-type operators)than major carriers.
Are there CAA guys available in ORL or do you have to bring them from the UK?UKBound wrote:Just to clarify
The initial UK medical if you have a foreign Class 1 is 250GBP, not 600GBP. The exams cost 55GBP each (14 of them). If you have a type rating, and can find a company to do IR ride in their sim during the PPC, then as long as the CAA are present to observe, voila you have a UK ATPL.
UKBound
A son of a friend of mine did it through these guys in Florida. http://www.nacgroundschool.com/dlcourse.htm
He did his ride in Florida as well. It seems that a DFTE from the UK makes the rounds every 6 months or so.
Some food for thought IF you have a grandparent of UK descent.
http://www.ukimmigration.com/family/uk_ ... cestry.htm
http://www.smithstonewalters.com/ancestry.htm
He did his ride in Florida as well. It seems that a DFTE from the UK makes the rounds every 6 months or so.
Some food for thought IF you have a grandparent of UK descent.
http://www.ukimmigration.com/family/uk_ ... cestry.htm
http://www.smithstonewalters.com/ancestry.htm
pa31t <========= Do you have your JAR-FCL ? Have you taken the course in Greece.
For that matter, has anyone researched the conversion from ICAO to JAA in Greece ? If you have studied there please post with your experiences and if you now have a job.
Thank you,
350TT
For that matter, has anyone researched the conversion from ICAO to JAA in Greece ? If you have studied there please post with your experiences and if you now have a job.
Thank you,
350TT
I dream of a pilot in shining aluminum *sigh*
