FPML

[Maver!ck]

I'm not at jazz but just keep in mind that if AC wants to shift flying again down the road the same thing can happen at jazz or worse you can get straight up laid off. If you are young go to AC if you are older jazz isn't the worst thing in the world but who knows if it will exist down the road if your young.

Well said ! It depends how old you are .... I believe if you are in your 20s it is a no brainer ! In your 30s it depends what YOU want to do and in your 40s staying at Jazz is a pretttttttty sweeeeeet gig !

[KAG]

Getting life decisions made for ya from Avcanada is pro. If you have to ask, you're really not capable of making important decisions such as those in the left seat.

Whats wrong with asking for advice? Thinking like that tells me you're not ready for the left seat.

Back to the topic, I went through the Jazz system 10 years ago. Wow have times changed. You needed 10 years in YYZ just to be a reserve b!tch skipper. Going there will advance your career, as for getting onto AC, impossible to answer. Its all a gamble/best guess until your career has played out behind you and you can look back and judge for yourself.

[Fanblade]

My opinion only.

I would be very leary of making a career at any regional. Those jobs go out for tender every 5-10 years. What you see today could be very different a few years down the road. Possibly not at all. The pressure to compete against the newest, cheapest, lowest common denominator, will never end. If your company can't compete they lose the flying.

Look south of the boarder to see what to expect. The future may be better for regional wages than the last two decades as a pilot shortage looms. However the greatest beneficiary appears to be those at the major airlines as regional flying is repatriated back to mainline.

Someone will want to point out that Encore is wholly owned. Jazz and its predecessor airlines were also wholly owned for a few decades. Once costs started to climb AC looked for an alternative model. If Encores costs climb the same will happen. WJ will use the threat of contracting out and/or selling Encore to keep Encores costs competitive with AC express. IOW even if Encore stays wholly owed it will do so only by being hand cuffed to AC express WAWCON.

[Fanblade]

I understand that movement is at a feverish pace at Air Canada, but I'm concerned that after leaving Jazz (assuming a successful recruitment process of course), I may be stuck at just that wrong AC seniority number. There's going to be hundreds of new hires before me and they will be getting their picks before my turn comes. And then, the movement slows down at some point in the future. Everyone will pretty much be stuck at where they are and just wait for the next cycle to get things moving again.

It seems a tad pessimistic but there has to be a point where it's too late to move to AC and you're better off just staying where you are with a higher seniority?

I'd be lying if I said being trapped at the bottom won't happen. It happens to someone at the end of every hiring cycle. But it passes. Think of it as effectively being the first hired in the next cycle.

Risk reward. There is risk in leaving. There is risk in staying. Where is your greatest reward?

[dhc#]

My opinion only.

I would be very leary of making a career at any regional. Those jobs go out for tender every 5-10 years. What you see today could be very different a few years down the road. Possibly not at all. The pressure to compete against the newest, cheapest, lowest common denominator, will never end. If your company can't compete they lose the flying.

Look south of the boarder to see what to expect. The future may be better for regional wages than the last two decades as a pilot shortage looms. However the greatest beneficiary appears to be those at the major airlines as regional flying is repatriated back to mainline.

Someone will want to point out that Encore is wholly owned. Jazz and its predecessor airlines were also wholly owned for a few decades. Once costs started to climb AC looked for an alternative model. If Encores costs climb the same will happen. WJ will use the threat of contracting out and/or selling Encore to keep Encores costs competitive with AC express. IOW even if Encore stays wholly owed it will do so only by being hand cuffed to AC express WAWCON.

You nailed it !

Most pilots have such short memories, when things are rollin' and it seems the hiring won't stop....all it takes is some international incident, economy tanks, the music stops, everyone ends up stuck where they are, for better or worse. Who knows if Jazz will be around in its current form in 10 yrs, probably not, same goes for Sky Regional, Georgian, Encore...etc. Just look at the history.

You pointed it out very clearly, look at what is happening to regionals in the states, and you see what will happen in Canada given the current trends. Better to work for the airline that pays the bills and not the contractor, regionals' are no longer set up as career destinations, only a stepping stone or dead end...

[altiplano]

Someone will want to point out that Encore is wholly owned. Jazz and its predecessor airlines were also wholly owned for a few decades. Once costs started to climb AC looked for an alternative model. If Encores costs climb the same will happen. WJ will use the threat of contracting out and/or selling Encore to keep Encores costs competitive with AC express. IOW even if Encore stays wholly owed it will do so only by being hand cuffed to AC express WAWCON.

It's called "unlocking shareholder value" and of course it will happen.

Besides, airlines today want to be nothing more than a name on the side of the plane... Airplanes, Employees - just liabilities...

[Ah_yeah]

If these operators pay their pilots like they are a stepping stone, then treat the job like a stepping stone.