Anxiety

[Meatservo]

You might actually have a point somewhere in here, you know, maybe about taking a break from flying if you don't feel mentally healthy or whatever, but the real reason your friends here are being hard on you in particular is that your opinion wasn't the first thing to leap out of your brain and into the forum. The first thing to leap out of your brain was a silly meme about vibrators, because you wanted to make fun of the original poster. Now everyone thinks you're a dick. It's OK, I have greatly enjoyed selectively being a dick on many occasions, as people here will no doubt testify.

Just admit you were being a dick that one time. It's OK. We'll understand.

[SuperchargedRS]

Sigh.

ok, I'll agree the guy probably doesn't need a clinical vibrator to fix his problems


Though I was quite serious about the severe anxiety thing not having a place in the cockpit

[Meatservo]

[loopy]

It's pretty easy to play armchair psychiatrist or psychologist. There's a reason why it requires so many years of training. Most psychological issues occur on a spectrum, and someone may experience considerable symptoms on a short term basis on that spectrum or long term, chronically, on that spectrum. It would be rare to meet an adult who hasn't experienced in the short term what could be characterized as anxiety or depression. Somtimes people just need help past a rough patch. A death in the family, divorce, who knows. You can't just judge that because someone says they're anxious they are unfit to fly. Yes, there are definitely people who may not be suited to the profession for various personality or psychological issues. I would rather share my pointy office with someone who realized they were struggling and sought help rather than the guy who would rather not admit any weakness, stuffs it down, drinks or medicated in another way. Which is more dangerous?

As to the poster who suggested that servicemen and women who end up with PTSD were predisposed to this issue has no idea what it is. In WWI they called it shell shock. In WWII I think they used the term battle fatigue. It is created by exposure to a singular or repeated traumatic incidents. It is more common than people believe, amongst first responders, victims of trauma of various sorts.

There is more awareness now as to what this is. In years past people didn't know what it was. They drank or got medicated on tranquilizers or the relative everybody knew was just a little off.

[AuxBatOn]

I'm not talking about someone who get a little jittery, I'm talking about someone who knows they have a problem to the point they are asking what pills they can pop while holding their medical.

Someone with diabetes will pop pills regularly to control the illness. Same with high cholesterol. Some people wear glasses that might fall down in flight to control their bad eyesight!

[SuperchargedRS]

I'm not talking about someone who get a little jittery, I'm talking about someone who knows they have a problem to the point they are asking what pills they can pop while holding their medical.

Someone with diabetes will pop pills regularly to control the illness. Same with high cholesterol. Some people wear glasses that might fall down in flight to control their bad eyesight!

If you don't understand the difference between someone with major anxiety issues and what you're describing, I believe you may lack the mental hardware for this conversation to be worth carrying on.

[AuxBatOn]

Ah the insult tactic! Shows your maturity...

If anxiety can be controlled to a point that it is a non issue, akin to someone with diabetes that is controlled through medication, and an aviation physician says it's okay and safe, why does it matter to you?

[BTD]

Empathy is a great thing, and should be practiced on the couch of a shrink, but I don't have a place for it on the flight deck.

So, if your F/O were to say "I'm not comfortable with this" your response would be "suck it up snowflake"?

Depends on what this is and how he said it.

If our course put us into a line of hard core CBs and he said logically and calmly he was not comfy for X Y Z, well that's the point of having two brains up front.

If it was clear blue and 22, plane was good, cabin good, forecasts good, were just about to push back, and he started freaking out and saying over and over in a stressed voice "I'm not comfortable with this!!", that's a whole nother' situation.

I hesitate to wade into this except on this point.

This thinking is wrong. Your FO is not only there to catch the things you missed, but also to provide a different perspective. The example of the cbs is a red herring. Presumably you would have not put yourself in that position to begin with, and by design your example illustrates that your FO is only pointing out something you already agree with.

Make the example of something that you and your FO have different opinions about.

I can tell you this. As a captain at a 705 airline I will never intentionally put my aircraft into a position/environment I know my FO is not comfortable with, even if I disagree. He may know something I don't.

That doesn't mean we won't have a discussion, but until we are in agreement, we aren't doing it.

[SuperchargedRS]

Ah the insult tactic! Shows your maturity...

If anxiety can be controlled to a point that it is a non issue, akin to someone with diabetes that is controlled through medication, and an aviation physician says it's okay and safe, why does it matter to you?

Not an insult, if you can't understand any of the point of a major anxiety or other debilitating mental issue being quite different from someone wearing glasses, we're just so far apart on our reasoning that there is no point on further discussion.

[noflex]

Well this blew up! I just wanted a yes or no from someone who might be prescribed something, but instead got a lot of Supercharged BS! For the record, I don't suffer from anxiety. My friends son is thinking of getting into aviation, and is currently takeing something.

[B208]

How about flying with the clap?

I sense a story there.....

[Cat Driver]

Actually there is.

Fortunately I got it at the nursing station in Inuvik and all I had to do was go back to where I got it to get rid of it.

Mixed emotions:::

Is when a pilot goes back home after a stay up north and gives his wife the clap.

You blame her and she breaks down and starts to cry.

[McKinley]

Getting back to anxiety.. / the topic..
People aren't typically.. born with depression, anxiety.. they can be predisposed to it.. sure but I think it's environmental..

Here's my uneducated opinion.

Some people go through life with little or no hiccups. Others, are not so lucky and get dealt a less than optimal hand.

Or other people go through life and by the nature of their career are exposed to some nasty stuff. Does this make them less human? Hell no, if anything it makes them more human. Sometimes, seeing this stuff rewires their brain in an unhealthy way.. (In some cases, if you aren't affected by these things, you might be lacking some humanity.)

Anyways...

Some posters suggested:

Meditation
Religion
Outdoor activities
Physical exercise


All of those are awesome! However, it cannot rewire your brain to be less " anxious" it will reduce the anxiety or bring you down when you are " activated."

Nothing can replace proper therapy.. from a registered psychologist who you can trust. ( I am assuming you have benefits to cover said treatment.)

Ultimately, if left untreated, chronic anxiety/ stress can eat away at your health. ( GI issues, sleep issues, muscle tension, interpersonal conflict at home or at work.. all of these things will lead to more stress and your situation will snowball..

The sad part is we have a draconian regulator who thinks in the stone age who refuses to acknowledge pilots are human...

My take is :

Go get some help..in CONJUNCTION with the outlets above.

I'm not sure why you posted this on here.. it would be the last thing I'd do but .. that point aside there's my .02.

I'd get the problem treated or get the person to seek help prior to becoming a pilot.. get the issue sorted and the help will probably give said individual tools to deal with the issues at hand.. BEFORE they are at the controls by themselves .. in a new and very mentally taxing endeavor. Heck, they'll probably be a BETTER pilot for it in the long run.

Flying is unforgiving/ CAN be stressful.

Tests sometimes every 6 months.
Stressful emergency situations
Interpersonal conflicts

Best of luck!

[co-joe]

Does anybody take something for anxiety, or know if there is anything that can be prescribed and still hold a class 1 medical?

If a prescription for SSRI's is a career ender, I'd be up for trying other stuff if it were me. Does getting a prescription for medical marijuana for anxiety cause any issues with your medical? I think some high CBD, low THC bud might help.

[3down&loct]

Bringing this thread back to life.
Has there been any progress on the use of SSRIs and flying with MOT.
Would like to hear from any pilots that have been prescribed an SSRI and are back to flying.
How long were you grounded? Were there any restrictions when you came back on line, Etc.?

[mmm..bacon]

About 2 years ago now, I had a major depressive episode. SSRIs were the first line of counterattack for me, and also a series of intensive counselling sessions. My medical was 'suspended' immediately, and remained so for a year. I've been back on line for almost a year now, but am restricted to flying two crew only. I send reports to TC every six months, in addition to doing my annual medical exam.
Currently trying to wean myself off the SSRI meds, which is a long, trying job.
If you can possibly avoid the meds, I would try to do so.
There are some side effects - I gained about 6kg over the first six months (despite exercising like a fanatic..) your libido drops , and one of the other uses of SSRIs is to treat premature ejaculation - which for a normal guy is *really* frustrating

[vermont]

Boy, SuperchargedRS, you're kind of a dick!

Easy, my friend. What he has, there is no cure for.

Sorry but all these new "conditions" are really silly, they didn't exist up until recently and only in very liberal societies, especially ones where men were raised mostly by women or the government and raised to be much more feminine. Could you imagine D day, "hey guys, I have anxiety, I'm going to sit this one out". Our heroes and the real builders of our great nations would have laughed, and cured that with a swift size 10 to the arse.

It's one thing to come down with "anxiety" if your working as a liberal professor at some soft shoed college, go pop a bunch of pills and sit the day out in a "safe place", but this nonsense has zero place in the cockpit.

Jebus dude, I've had two full engine failures, guess I might have felt a little "anxiety" when the one engine chit the bed, didnt really think about it, didn't have time for it, I was a little busy flying the plane, I did my job and didn't harm any skin tin or tickets.

Don't mean to be a jerk, but if you suffer from some of these modern "conditions" professions like aviation, EMS, fire, police, millitary might not be a good choice.

I'm not saying this to be mean, or hurt anyone's "feelings", I'm saying this because one day you might find yourself flying me or mine around and there are enough variables in aviation by its nature.

Yeah anxiety is just made up, same with the PTSD that leading to regular first responder suicides in Ontario

[TwinOtterFan]

If SuperchargedBS wants to come up to the base and meet some "snowflakes" I'm sure I can introduce him to some. I'm currently serving in Northern Ontario. Or maybe he can come tell some of the families of some of my co workers who tragically took there own life since I have been posted here how weak they were...... +1 to B208 and AuxBatOn for mentioning JPSU and the fine work they are trying to do. It's not perfect but they are trying.

Anyway, I don't normally entertain the trolling on here but man that guy really hit a nerve.....

I'm not sure about the civi world, but I know in the airforce world SSRI's are still a no go. I have seen them taken for an "acute stress reaction" for 6 months or so, and then wined off with proper counseling. and be able to fly again.

[CpnCrunch]

The "some people can deal with it" attitude is total bullshit. PTSD doesn't happen to people who are weak-minded. In fact being "tough" and suppressing emotions might be part of the problem. I was recently visiting a friend whose husband is an Afghanistan vet. In his bathroom there were about 30 bottles of various medications for depression and chronic pain due to his PTSD. And no, he's not the type of weak minded person SuperchargedBS was thinking of.

Chronic anxiety and depression can happen to anyone...it is just the way the brain is wired, and you have no direct control over it once it gets to that point. Don't confuse it with situational anxiety.

[Willirim]

Hello. Anxiety is not the main problem as a rule. Usually, to get rid of anxiety, it is necessary to find out its appearance. Medications can only relieve the symptom of the disease but not cure it. I think you need a comprehensive approach to treatment. A psychotherapist's consultation and medications are needed. It is the only way to solve the problem fully. When I had a similar situation after my husband's death, I turned to grief counseling to help my psyche cope with anxiety. And it helped me a lot.

[co-joe]

I wonder about self medicating with CBD oil. I know someone who finds smoking it as well as eating it helps her anxiety. Does the 28 days toke to yoke cover CBD oil?

[DHC-1 Jockey]

I wonder about self medicating with CBD oil. I know someone who finds smoking it as well as eating it helps her anxiety. Does the 28 days toke to yoke cover CBD oil?

From Transport Canada's Aviation Cannabis Page:

Transport Canada defines “cannabis use” as the use of any cannabis product (including CBD) by any method (including smoking, vaping, eating, or applying to the skin) for any purpose (including medical, recreational, or other non-medical reasons).

https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/genera ... galization

So, you can't use CBD oil within 28 days of being a crew member.

[sendymcsendyface]

I wonder about self medicating with CBD oil. I know someone who finds smoking it as well as eating it helps her anxiety. Does the 28 days toke to yoke cover CBD oil?

You can't. Despite TC's ruling, lots of pilots aren't aware of that. I know quite a few folks who use CBD products to treat various ailments. I first used it to treat my anxiety (stopped flying while using it), but found that I would have to up my dose every few weeks, to the point where the side effects/costs were prohibitive. So I just did the normal thing and started on some SSRIs. My case is pretty mild, and I've got no side effects, so I'm gonna try and get my medical back in a few months.