Aerosucre 727 accident 20 Dec 2016

[Heliian]

Struggled on takeoff, overran and became airborne. Crashed shortly after. 5 deceased. Condolences.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=w ... u6qJKx_RFg

[Mick G]

Disgusting.

This is worse than I first thought; this airline and crew were reckless and had little regard for safety. A previous video exists of the exact same airplane at the exact same runway and BARELY making it airborne. Clearly the culture of this airline was very poor.

I suspect the locals got a kick out of this airline pushing the envelope and that is what explains why so many had their phone cameras running. It was a thrill for them, and they had witnessed previous close calls, and they probably watched it whenever it came into that airport for the thrill.

http://www.thedrive.com/news/6612/the-c ... e-o-before

As well, after watching the video, it wasn't the overrun that caused the plane to crash, and it wasn't from being overloaded per se. The reason for the crash is the right wing clipping the stone structure which certainly caused right wing damage and explains the RH wing dip after becoming airborne and subsequent crash. If the stone structure wasn't clipped, the plane would have probably survived, and the crew would have likely done it all over again week after week until their luck ran out.

[pelmet]

One has to wonder if there was an engine failure involved. If not, it would appear that they were way overloaded.

[FAD3C]

Disgusting.

This is worse than I first thought; this airline and crew were reckless and had little regard for safety. A previous video exists of the exact same airplane at the exact same runway and BARELY making it airborne. Clearly the culture of this airline was very poor.

I suspect the locals got a kick out of this airline pushing the envelope and that is what explains why so many had their phone cameras running. It was a thrill for them, and they had witnessed previous close calls, and they probably watched it whenever it came into that airport for the thrill.

http://www.thedrive.com/news/6612/the-c ... e-o-before

As well, after watching the video, it wasn't the overrun that caused the plane to crash, and it wasn't from being overloaded per se. The reason for the crash is the right wing clipping the stone structure which certainly caused right wing damage and explains the RH wing dip after becoming airborne and subsequent crash. If the stone structure wasn't clipped, the plane would have probably survived, and the crew would have likely done it all over again week after week until their luck ran out.

From the comments in the videos, they are definitely not enjoying it or getting a thrill from it. In fact one guy says "this is a lie, i can't believe this"

[telex]

Looks like some damage through the first fence (or prior).



Not sure if they hit the second fence posts with the wing. Gear and body certainly.

[linecrew]

Looks like some damage through the first fence (or prior).

If you are referring to the gap in the flaps, this is not damage, the 727 has two set of flaps on the wing separated by the inboard aileron.

[pelmet]

I was just watching the videos again and thought of something as a spectator. It appears that based on previous impressively low takeoffs, that several people had come to the airport perimeter to view and film this takeoff. That can be entertaining I suppose but......

When that 727 ripped through the fence, it could easily have pulled a large amount of it from either side along with it killing the spectators. Something to think about when thinking about getting that extra close-up video. I guess in this case, the fence was sliced through cleanly.

I seem to remember an IL-76 chartered by our military a few years back attempting to land at Trenton. The weather was poor and somehow they got very low and took out about 10 feet of airport perimeter fence which continued with them to their alternate.

[Mick G]

For any naysayers about the lax safety,

Please watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syl3tCqKbSs

The airline clearly did not promote a safety culture; shame on them.

You can clearly see the stone structure that was hit on the ill fated flight this week.

[crazyaviator]

Condolences.

WHAT the F__K was that for ??? They were playing russian roulette, what do you expect???

[GyvAir]

Their family, friends and loved ones weren't party to that game of roulette.

[Heliian]

Condolences.

WHAT the F__K was that for ??? They were playing russian roulette, what do you expect???

At time of posting I did not know the circumstances, however, that does not change my sentiments to those who are effected by this crash.

[Kitzbuhel]

Condolences.

WHAT the F__K was that for ??? They were playing russian roulette, what do you expect???

What happened to you that you feel loss of life isn't tragic, no matter the circumstances

[crazyaviator]

My lack of sympathy was meant for the pilots NOT their families. The pilots still alive are aiding and abetting the culture of russian roulette and putting their own families welfare at risk !

[Rockie]

Rules are one thing, but this shows a complete lack of any self-preservation instinct. It's just unfathomable.

[pdw]

A couple of days after the flight-test I did an end-fencer something like that with my first full-gross/POH-sized load, same conditions/elev as this one .. in a 68 Skyhawk. What a feeling ...

It'll be something to understand exactly how they got into this predicament.

[Black_Tusk]

No balanced field requirements down there I guess?

[teacher]

I've flown down in that part of the world on a 727 many moons ago. We had a similar occurrence where of course, we all lived HOWEVER, we had to extract our seat cushions surgically after the take off.

We re did our take off calculations multiple times using multiple variables both together and independently and could not find an error. By the time we realized we were going to use every inch of the runway we were out of room and had to continue the take off or total the shanty town just beyond the threshold.

The only logical conclusion we came up with was an over loaded situation that was done behind our backs. The cargo operator was known to push for more freight every flight and was often told "NO" by the pilots. We investigated further but were always just quoted the same weights we were given.

I'm not defending or accusing but just reminding that given the right conditions or intent a crew can be blind sided by something out of their control.

[pdw]

over loaded situation

I've pondered this "many moons" as well. Yes that which goes above an expected daily MTOW takeoff experience is then not a normal weight addition either ... it automatically takes the situation out of bounds and is easily the single factor for having run out of runway (the increased requirement was exponential). A weight addition below MTOW ... wouldn't be able to say that

With open participation of all involved, you would have been able to show it went over limits. With date/time, temp, humidity, rwy slope/length etc .. can figure if other factors applied or not (retroactively for proof).

I search the historic surface analysis for the report I'm reading about. If they were pulling stunts like that in your cargo hold .. they likely won't know the days it could kill you (not component savy enough to predict every TODA for pilots). One day the iffy-component / hot/ high-humidity .. like this one here ... oops

[teacher]

Unfortunately in that part of the world there was no open participation, from anybody.

[Eric Janson]

I'm not defending or accusing but just reminding that given the right conditions or intent a crew can be blind sided by something out of their control.

There are multiple videos on Youtube showing very similar take-offs that they just got away with.

This looks like a classic "Normalisation of Deviance" accident.

[pdw]

Do we still need the traditional 'holes in cheese' understanding of it ? ie What the list of deviances (holes) were that lined up. ie Was this a newer crew ? Was the extra land to extend the runway not for sale ? Too expensive ? (and other questions)

[lownslow]

There are multiple videos on Youtube showing very similar take-offs that they just got away with.

This looks like a classic "Normalisation of Deviance" accident.

It's sad to think that I'm sure more than once in the past as the gear was coming up someone in the cockpit said, "One of these days we're going to wipe out that stupid fence," followed by some nervous laughter and the knowledge that they got away with it one more time...

[pdw]

Probably normal to be a little "nervous" there while backing it up for getting set to commit to the power for this short-field. When calculations show it was a go, what's going wrong there for them ... ie from a usual clearing ?

One suggestion was engine could be lacking output ... with the component already showing ...

What's the chance for an off fuel blend ... for reducing power available ?

[crazyaviator]

IN ALL LIKELYHOOD, THERE WERE NO ENGINE PROBLEMS ETC, THERE WERE BASIC HUMAN PROBLEMS, INEXCUSABLE errors in foolish judgment ooops on the caps

[pelmet]

Probably normal to be a little "nervous" there while backing it up for getting set to commit to the power for this short-field. When calculations show it was a go, what's going wrong there for them ... ie from a usual clearing ?

One suggestion was engine could be lacking output ... with the component already showing ...

What's the chance for an off fuel blend ... for reducing power available ?

Now this is one where a few knots of wind change could have made the critical difference compared to earlier flights.