Air Sprint Thread?

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CCnCoke
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Air Sprint Thread?

Post by CCnCoke »

What happened to this thread?? This forum exercises a lot censorship - what ever happened to free speech and all that jazz?? :idea:
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Mike
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Post by Mike »

go figure
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Snarky
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Post by Snarky »

Boooo! i was enjoying that thread. But i guess it was a little slanderous, perhaps it can be continued without actually using the company name?
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ahramin
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Post by ahramin »

First of all if it is written it is libel, if it is spoken it is slander. Either way it is an untrue statement that damages someone. So as long as you can prove what you say or write, it cannot be slander or libel.

However, if the someone contacts avcanada and requests a retraction, av has two choices:

1. Remove the post. Thereby avoiding all possibility of a lawsuit, or

2. Leave it up, hoping that the anonymous posters on this forum always make sure they have the facts straight and can prove them before writing whatever they feel like.

The downside of picking #2 is that if by some almost inconceivable chance one of us has written something defaming a company without being able to prove it av will find himself with a big and very expensive headache.

If av gets sued are you guys going to kick in a couple thousand beans each for legal costs to defend your hearsay? Or just rattle your sabres against the company some more and say "thats too bad".

Think before accusing someone of censorship. However if you are so fired up on free speech why don't you put some money up. I am sure av will gladly e-mail you the thread and you can put it up on the web somewhere if it is important to you.
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Mike
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Post by Mike »

sooooooooo...

How is Air Sprint ?? Any pilots working for them care to respond ?

Mr. Hungry
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Say Altitude
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Post by Say Altitude »

Ahramin,

What about editing the "offending" part of a post with a ###### or something along that lines and then add a tag line in red font saying something like "Edited by admin due to complaint etc, etc" and keep the original thread running?

That's what PPrune.org from the UK does and it seems to keep the spirit of the discussion going and also placates the complaintant without deleting the entire discussion.

Just a suggestion.........besides, for someone to file and succeed in a slander lawsuit, they would have to prove a degree of harm was done by the offending post - a VERY difficult task considering the broad range of freedom of expression allowed by the courts. So don't get too worked up about it.............think about my suggestion. It may satisfy both parties.....
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avcanada
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Moved

Post by avcanada »

I actually moved the thread and after I get a spare minute will probably move it back when I get a chance to review it.
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ahramin
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Post by ahramin »

Say Altitude:

Say Cancelling IFR.

You are quite right. Removing the specific replies would be enough. But then we would have to keep a close eye and continue removing anything of the same nature. However i agree with you that it would be better to do it that way.

The topic was not permanently removed. It was simply moved to the admin forum as soon as the complaint was made and is pending revue. Av may scrap the whole thing or modify it. Please feel free to continue the discussion in the meantime.

Agreed, it would be very difficult for someone to win a lawsuit against avcanada. However, going to court is expensive whether you win or lose. We have no right to expect av to put up with a headache for our sakes.
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CCnCoke
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Post by CCnCoke »

Well at least the mods have enough balls to step up and state their case. And guys.. I understand your point of view. The rate at which some companies (who shall remain names in compliance with your code here) seek out to ruin people and their reputations through malicious lawsuits and arbitrary firings would probably lead me to to *perhaps* behave in similar fashion. I say *perhaps* because I fail to see how you would become liable. The comments made on this board are those of the posters and "do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the moderators/operators of this board". This is an open discussion; and whether I choose to trash a company online or in a bar is indistiguishable in my view. Would the owner of the bar be sued for liable if a patron slanders another patron? I don't think so. A solution to all this would to have the server off-shore and then let the 'real' stories come out. If you're afraid of backlash from the courts then simply don't log IPs. Not much they can do without that info and even WITH that info it amounts to circumstantial evidence at best.
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ahramin
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Post by ahramin »

CCnCoke wrote:whether I choose to trash a company online or in a bar is indistiguishable in my view
It is not indistinguishable(two ns) in the view of the courts.
CCnCoke wrote:I fail to see how you would become liable
The way Canadian courts seem to lean is that an unregulated information exchange, like a file sharing network or public bulletin board, is not liable. However we do have moderators here and we do moderate, which opens up the forum owner to liability. So if a request for a retraction is made it must be considered.
CCnCoke wrote:Would the owner of the bar be sued for liable if a patron slanders another patron?
As stated in my previous post libel(no a) is a written defamatory statement that is untrue. Slander is a verbal defamatory statement that is untrue. So no one can be sued for libel for making a slanderous statement, and vice versa.

Again i agree that a lawsuit is not that probable, but if av does not want to open himself up to one, that is his prerogative. I myself have been slandered and let it pass because the offender was a big frog in a picayune pond, of no consequence. Choose your battles.
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Post by DragEraser »

CCnCoke. You beat me to the question. So I will ask another.

There is far too much be censorship here at avcanada. We live in Canada people!!! Schedule B, Part 1.2 states everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including
freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.

So where is this FREEDOM OF SPEECH we as CANADIANS deserve???

Avcanada, you should post your ethics and policies regarding CAAP. Reads more like a dictatorship to me (being of German descent and all, I know :shock: ). Now excercising my rights as a Canadian Citizen, I have the right to make that statement. But,

I too will have my IP address banned for excercising my FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Even if the thread was moved, it will be under review and more than likely deleted.

Isn't this a place where you can share ideas and opinions about aviation related issues? Airsprint is part of the aviation community and I feel that the pilot community should know what they're getting into. First hand knowledge must be there in order for your post to stay is garbage. Many posts would be deleted if that were the case.


Again, where is this FREEDOM OF SPEECH we as CANADIANS deserve???

DaveB.
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Policy

Post by avcanada »

I have removed three posts in the last 4 months :!: Two of the four I removed in the last week. Of the 4 posts I moved I moved one back after the topic had the personal attack removed.

Censorship I think not.

Policy has never changed.

Post a personal attack the message will be pulled and reviewed no exceptions. Complain about a message and I will review it and consider sending warnings/banning/ ect.. the offender.

If you don't post a personal attack then don't expect to have your post removed, simple.
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cyyz
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Post by cyyz »

Super nintendo chalmers..

I broke my wookie..

I like stuff?

I choo-choo-choose you... and theres a picture of a choo-choo..
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Post by bandaid »

I don't think you guys/gals really know how good you have it here. I belong to another board where the kind of language and comments made here would have me kicked off (union board).
The message board icon on the home page of Avcanada states "A perfect place to ask questions and get answers" and you guys have the freedom to do that and a lot more. When you post names or businesses in a negative light you only have to ask yourselves how mad you would be if the shoe was on the other foot.
Lastly, Avcanada puts his nackers in the vise anytime someone posts a derogatory remark or (for lack of a better word) nasty picture here. It is a public sight in that anyone can enter and read the posts.
This is a great sight, lots of experienced pilots sharing their knowledge and lots of heartfelt posts about the industry. Keep it up guys/gals.
I just re-read my post and noticed that I put guys only so I will edit it to read guys/gals. Sorry ladies.
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ahramin
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Post by ahramin »

DragEraser wrote:where is this FREEDOM OF SPEECH we as CANADIANS deserve
ahramin wrote:However if you are so fired up on free speech why don't you put some money up. I am sure av will gladly e-mail you the thread and you can put it up on the web somewhere if it is important to you
As stated you free lunch reprobate you are free say anything you want. On any board YOU start up. In fact let me extend a vivid invitation to freely piss off. You deserve exactly nothing from av or anyone. Until you are ready to put up time effort and money you are entitled to that lovely number the arabs invented.

If i come into your house and start yelling at your kids are you going to say "It's all right dear, he's just expressing his free speech"? If i send you tons of e-mail messages on how to enlarge your nugatory manhood are you going to accept that as free speech, or treat it as spam? So use what nescient brain you have and think things through a little more. Libel is against the law in this country, regardless of free speech. As for your foaming diatribe i feel no need to put up with the ill conceived notions of a cephaloplegic dumkoff such as yourself.

The minute amount of censorship on this board is here to:

1. Prevent people from using the anonymous nature of this board to post libelous statements, and
2. Remove spam.

Obviously inflammatory posts of no redeeming value fall under the definition of spam.

So you have all the freedom you deserve, which is to freely go piss in your hat.

Aside: Sorry if i overstepped my prerogatives AvCanada, just cannot stand by and ignore "the world owes me" squareheads.
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Brahma
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Post by Brahma »

.
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Last edited by Brahma on Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
chewsta
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Post by chewsta »

The owner of bar won't be sued for libel or slander. They will be sued if they let someone drive drunk.

Messages boards won't be sued for letting someone drive drunk, but they will be sued for libel.

Gotta compare apples to apples. Cheers.
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Post by cyyz »

Lawsuit here lawsuit there.. Every where a lawsuit.. LoL..

Wonderful "free" world we live in where everyone has to watch what they wear, eat, look, look at and say in fear of reproach.

:claps:
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CCnCoke
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Post by CCnCoke »

Obviously inflammatory posts of no redeeming value fall under the definition of spam.
One could argue this very post falls under that classification. Drag Eraser did not state his argument in malicious language. Yet you (abramim) attack him with argueably liabelous remarks obviously underladden with some anger directed at him and all of the so-called 'squareheads' that (apparantly) get you worked up on a regular basis. As a moderator of this board I would expect a more mature response. And I'll second Brahma's (albeit toungue-in-cheek) request for an apology to this board for his statements.

With respect to costs associated with the board. If you're that concerned then perhaps you should bump up the rental cost for the annoying banner space at the top of the page. With the amount of traffic this site receives you shouldn't be selling that space for much less than 900 a month. (which is more than enough to rent a dedicated server plus beer money left over). If you're selling it for less I'd recommend a new sales rep.
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Post by ahramin »

All right. I am guilty of initiating name calling and that was wrong. :oops:

DragEraser i beg your pardon for calling you a reprobate and squarehead and insinuating you had a small anything. You guys are correct that it was uncalled for and i regret it.

I pledge that in the future rediculous demands civilly presented in such a manner will be demurred to as resoundingly but with the same civility that said demands were made.
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Post by DragEraser »

WHOA there dude!

What I am getting at is anyone that asks a question and someone that has worked there or knows a friend that works there should have the right as a Candaian to post a response and not get it removed if the "company/individual" complains.

If someone asked about my employer, I would surely post that it is a great place to work with great equipment, and that would be O.K. But if I were to post that everyone is fired for wearing the wrong cologne on any given day and ANYBODY and I mean ANYBODY disagrees, the posting is removed here. Are you really libel for what I (me, DragEraser) posts? Give them my IP address and let me deal with it. Yes?

Have a good day! :twisted:
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Last edited by DragEraser on Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post

Post by permateacher »

I think I was the one who started the thread when I was trying to track down an old buddy of mine. Turns out I found him alright but then the tread took a turn for the worst. Sorry to the AvCanada folks if I stirred up a hornets nest, I didn't think it would turn out like that.

Perma
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Post by dxprguy »

CYYZ - I am with ya.. you see the irony in the " if you so fired up on Free Speech put some of your money up"??! The government is corrupt the media is corrupt the lawyers feed on the corruption.. Internet forums are one of the last vestiges of FREE SPEECH now its under control of the mind police.. Run away and hide people!
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PositiveRateGearUp
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Run....

Post by PositiveRateGearUp »

I'm sitting here laughing my ass off. I can't believe that the original thread was taken off. Is it being looked at by the mod? Will it actually be posted-up again?

I can say this much, there wasn't a whole lot on that thread that wasn't true.
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Post by sprucemonkey »

So where'd the topic get moved to? (removed :? )
Complain about a message and I will review it and consider sending warnings/banning/ ect.. the offender.
Brahma made a complaint, did you take it seriously? Review it? Send a warning to ahramin, the offender?

Wondering if I should go piss in my hat or will I receive an answer? :wink:
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