Sunwing Cadet Program

[BBQ Chips]

It's a total crock but it doesn't surprise me. Seems to be a special kind of pilot that Sunwing tends to hire or sponsor.

Quite a classy statement. I am sure to say something like that, you must know the majority of the 385 Canadian pilots who work at Sunwing.

[FICU]

The Fab Four first officers, the first elite batch of young cadets

Oh my how big their heads must be with that kind of hype... People can let Sunwing know how they feel with their wallets.

[FlyingMonkey]

Love it!
Good for them.
Your all jealous and would have killed to be able to fly a 37 out of flight school.

[FICU]

Love it!
Good for them.
Your all jealous and would have killed to be able to fly a 37 out of flight school.

Not a chance! You have to enjoy being a hands and feet pilot before flying automated machines and experience "aviation" not hand holding to begin your career.

[fish4life]

Love it!
Good for them.
Your all jealous and would have killed to be able to fly a 37 out of flight school.

Out of flight school I would have loved the opportunity to do this but that is only because I was too dumb to know what I didn't know then. I'm extremely happy with the route I took that lacked automation but was heavy on using a scan and hands and feet. Due to the path I took I'm extremely comfortable in lots of situations I wouldn't have been comfortable in if I went straight into a 37.

[telex]

Due to the path I took I'm extremely comfortable in lots of situations I wouldn't have been comfortable in if I went straight into a 37.

Can you give an example?

[altiplano]

I'm glad to see Sunwing hiring more Canadians.

What a great opportunity for these kids.

I absolutely would have killed for a 737 job out of school. In fact I would have killed for any 705/jet job for the 10 years and thousands of hours of slogging it took to get one...

Different times now though...

Sunwing could no doubt get more experience, but by hiring these guys they know they have them... They aren't competitive to go anywhere for at least several years... if they hired the 5000hour Beech captain or Dash driver they know they got nothing on them... Off to China, or westjet, or whatever as soon as the deal looks better...

These kids aren't as good now as an experienced driver, then again I've seen multi thousand hour guys coming from wherever into my airline and they are almost deer in the headlights...

These kids aren't scabs, they're getting hired and joining the union. You don't like the hiring policy send them a letter, lobby the government - don't hate the player, hate the game...

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Scabs? What is wrong with you?
These kids get an airline job with a fresh CPL and make the same amount as a "regular " FO and you are pissed about it?
If they were throwing bags as a "pilot in waiting" you would complain that they are bringing down the industry! So what exactly do you want them to do for their first job? Exactly what you did?
I think you are pissed because Sunwing didn't hire you instead of them!
The pettiness and jealousy in Canadian aviation is disgusting.
You should be happy for them and happy that they are not TFWs.

[skypirate88]

Sunwing could no doubt get more experience, but by hiring these guys they know they have them... They aren't competitive to go anywhere for at least several years... if they hired the 5000hour Beech captain or Dash driver they know they got nothing on them... Off to China, or westjet, or whatever as soon as the deal looks better...

I think this is a large motivating factor for this program. I don't have any inside information, but I believe this is likely the same reason Jazz has so many agreements with colleges.

The folks awarded these spots are going to be in a little trouble in a few years without proper planning. I don't think the PICUS program allows for them to log enough time to meet the ATPL PIC requirements. They are going to have to find a side job to get the time, or pay for it.

[justwork]

200 hour FO's in the right seat of 737, pretty standard globally. It would be nice if they hired experienced pilots but it's obviously not financially sound. I wonder how they, or any operator, find themselves in a position where hiring someone with 200TT is the right move. Ahhh, I think I know. Pilot A has 3000 hours flying a beech or pilatus or what ever, comes to sunwing for a year then is off to WJ or AC. Pilot B has 200 hours and is basically stuck, for lack of better words, with Sunwing for a decade. Smart move on Sunwing, cadet programs and training bonds... A lot of pilots that are sitting at AC and WJ did this to the industry, Canadian pilots will do anything to claw their way into a mainline. It's a fact. Accept the consequences and carry on. I feel bad for all the Pilatus guys trying to get on at sunwing for a couple seasons to pad their logbook for AC or WJ.

[atphat]

They are hardly scabs. They had an opportunity and they took it. As altiplano says. Don't hate the player. Good on them. Just cause I had to work the docks doesn't mean everyone has to. People hating on these newbies just sound jealous. Get over it.

[sstaurus]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but I'm surprised they haven't tried a promissory note of some kind to keep people from jumping ship, rather than hiring cadets.... (Don't shoot me)

[mbav8r]

I only have a few concerns, the main one being will a low time pilot have the confidence to speak up if they see the Captain doing something they shouldn't, like showing up to work under the influence of alcohol!

[av8ts]

I think that will depend on the "culture" at the airline

[rudder]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but I'm surprised they haven't tried a promissory note of some kind to keep people from jumping ship, rather than hiring cadets.... (Don't shoot me)

At SW, full-time pilot hires sign a training bond. Seasonal pilot hires do not.

[Oxi]

Did not take long for one of these kids to scrape a tail…

You know for a fact that it was someone from the cadet program?

Yes this happened and it was a cadet!

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Friend of mine was PIC on a Canada 3000 757. FO was an F-18 pilot. On his leg, he scraped the tail so it happens to people other than just cadets.

[Old fella]

At my age"gettin your tail" is more of an issue than"scraping the tail". I know, brilliant commentary but that's me...................

[complexintentions]

If cadet pilots are the reason for incidents, what are the excuses for all the experienced guys having them?

It's amusing to watch the typical Canadian culture of envy that someone else is getting an opportunity they didn't have available to them. Sad, predictable, but kind of funny.

Ab initio pilots are used world-wide. There are talented ones, and there are less-so. Just like the folks that took a GA or military path to the airlines.

It's one's right to not like it. But trying to make it sound like they're some threat to safety because they didn't shoot an NDB approach in Norman Wells in some POS is just nonsense. And attempting to highlight an incident allegedly caused by a cadet pilot to try and prove something is a bit sick - the industry eating its young, as usual. Be proud.

Every path has its pros and cons. I'm glad I had to take the route I did, getting a chance to fly a wide variety of aircraft and operations. I think cadet pilots miss out on a great deal of what flying (and life) has to offer, in both good and bad ways. But if someone had offered me the right seat of a Boeing as a first job do you think I'd have turned it down?

[Rockie]

Low time military pilots and European cadet programs are often correctly cited as proof that it can be done. What's not often mentioned is that there is in place at both an initial training, and more importantly a continuing training ang monitoring program to make up for lack of experience. Speaking for the military at least the training never actually stops even once you're qualified.

I'd be interested in hearing what kind of initial training, ongoing training and line monitoring Sunwing has implemented.