How is This School Doing

[David Bayyari]

Hello,
I have been looking at flight schools in Canada and program options. I need your help if you have any experience or input that I can get before I arrive in Canada or start my program.

TLDR version;

I am interested in CPL/IR program.

So far, I have looked at

- Harv's Air in Winnipeg
- Langley Flying School in Langley, BC
- CFC in Boundary Bay, BC
- ProIFR in Vancouver, BC
- SeaLandAir in Delta, BC
- Brampton in Toronto, ON

I am narrowed down to Harv's Air, Langley or CFC. however, I prefer BC area.

any advice, tips, info is very appreciated.

[David Bayyari]

update: I checked CFC's ATPL program.

Their program gets the student to 1500 hrs of experience achieving full ATPL in 3 years. This would, of course, include work experience program.
Any ideas? Anyone knows Peter, the owner?

[David Bayyari]

http://www.cfc.aero/index.php/flight-tr ... lying/atpl

79000CAD - 25000CAD paid from work experience with them

[mike123]

however, I prefer BC area.

Not a good idea.
You will accomplish your training in Winnipeg much quicker

[AirFrame]

Maybe check out Skyquest at Langley as well?

[David Bayyari]

however, I prefer BC area.

Not a good idea.
You will accomplish your training in Winnipeg much quicker

Why is that?
This program

I am trying to get the iATPL to be done with ATPL exams, so basically, CFC and Harv's Air offer this.
However, CFC offers it through their 3-year program which includes FI and work(internship). I would guess, the first year is training and finish all exams.

I have to admit and say that I am not sure if this really would work, as far as the flight school is concerned. They claim I can get 1500hrs through work experience


This is their Student Handbook
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gbbhzihpbbfx ... ndbook.pdf

Could you guys check Chapter 14, page 44. I am not sure how to figure out if it looks good or not.

[mike123]

however, I prefer BC area.

Not a good idea.
You will accomplish your training in Winnipeg much quicker

Why is that?

Flat terrain. More good weather days in a year than in BC.
Don't believe any time frame estimates that flight schools promise you. Those are best case scenarios.
You should talk to people who actually trained in each of these schools and ask for their feedback.
I have my opinion about CFC but I will not post it in a public forum.

And why do you want to do an iATPL anyway? IMHO it's just another fancy method of separating students from their money.
Just get a CPL, find a job and earn your ATPL while working, like the overwhelming majority of pilots in Canada did it.

[moocow]

I wouldn't bother with Boundary Bay these days. It's way too crowded and you are pretty much shut down during the winter because of weather. I also have opinion of CFC but I will not post them here.

[ScottS]

Victoria Flying Club has pretty good weather in Lotus Land. This year has been particularly bad for BC coast weather, but last year there would have been hardly any weather days in the Winter.

[JBI]

And why do you want to do an iATPL anyway? IMHO it's just another fancy method of separating students from their money.
Just get a CPL, find a job and earn your ATPL while working, like the overwhelming majority of pilots in Canada did it.

I get the sense that the OP is not originally from Canada. Therefore with the visa issues he may or may not have an easier time obtaining employment in Canada with an integrated program where maybe he can instruct after the fact in Canada.

Although BC is a much nicer place to live in Canada than most other places (in my opinion), you will get much more flying done in the winter in Manitoba than you will in BC. In the winter, is extremely cloudy and rainy and you can go weeks on end without the weather conditions for flying. While much colder, the winter weather in Manitoba has better visibility and ceilings which are key for flight training.

Before deciding on a school you need to clarify what you intend to do with the licence after you are done. Do you have the right to work in Canada? Are you hoping to stay? Are you going to head back to a different country to fly? What are the conversion requirements? You should have all these questions answered before you decide on a flight school.

Best of luck!

[lhalliday]

however, I prefer BC area.

You obviously haven't looked at any Vancouver-area weather forecasts lately...winter in this town is not flying-friendly at the best of times, and this year it's been hideous since October...

There is more to B.C. than the southwestern corner.

...laura

[David Bayyari]

Well, iATPL allows me to have the ATPL exam done and I have an understanding that it gives you a better chance for flying jobs?
Working in Canada. Yes, I am a permanent resident.

What about jobs, what kind of jobs am I looking at after CPL/IR (210hrs)

[David Bayyari]

I have an engineering degree, and from that experience, I would prefer a professional feel of a college during my training. Structured training, busy schedule all week and definitely a uniform.

I would visit schools, but travelling around is not an option, so I would appreciate some advice.

[703doge]

I have an engineering degree, and from that experience, I would prefer a professional feel of a college during my training. Structured training, busy schedule all week and definitely a uniform.

I would visit schools, but travelling around is not an option, so I would appreciate some advice.

I like your attitude about structure and busy schedule. With all due respect, you lost me at the uniform part

Things you should also consider are Maintenance/Fleet Reliability, and flyable days:
-Chances are even if you go somewhere with good MX, it won't help if you're weathered for a week or better.
-More flyable days in terms of weather will help you with your desire to keep busy.

FWIW Harv's has great maintenance and a big fleet that is largely reliable. St. Andrews and Steinbach are great airports to learn at and friendly terrain. I'm unaware if Harv's has an iATPL program these days however.

Will an iATPL help you find a job at 200 hours? Negligible. Will it hurt? Not likely. IMO even if Harv's doesn't have an iATPL program, it's up to you to control how fast you progress, and how structured
your learning experience is. IIRC there was a fellow that went from zero hours TT to 200 hour CPL at Harv's in 6 months. If you are as motivated as you are making yourself sound, I would think Harv's should be at the top of your list.

Feel free to PM me!



703doge

[David Bayyari]

With all due respect, you lost me at the uniform part

haha, I prefer to look like a pilot from day one , part of being professionally oriented.

I am also looking at OAS (Ottawa Aviation Services). Their iATPL program gets you to 250hrs and Air Georgian interview (if qualified of course), not sure if this kind of schools actually do that.
I wonder if busy airports and terrain/wx could help better piloting skills. like CZBB, CYTZ, CYOW...

[KenoraPilot]

Manitoba has the best weather year round for VFR flight training. Plus cost of living in Manitoba is much lower thanBC for everything else. My 2 cents

[lhalliday]

At CZBB you will spend a lot of time on the ground waiting for takeoff clearance. You will spend time en route to Glen Valley for flight lessons. Both with the clock running.

Boundary Bay has its charms, and a "big airport" feel. But it has its issues too.

...laura

[Black_Tusk]

I have heard decent things about Langley, but beware they have a very small fleet. I'd say of the three posted above Harv's will be your best bet to get things done in a timely manner with good instruction. I went to another school, but have flown with pilots from all the ones you listed. They are all good pilots.

[digits_]

haha, I prefer to look like a pilot from day one , part of being professionally oriented.

Make sure you don't get it dirty while loading those pallets of groceries and mashed fruit into your airplane once you actually *are* a pilot.

[Black_Tusk]

At CZBB you will spend a lot of time on the ground waiting for takeoff clearance. You will spend time en route to Glen Valley for flight lessons. Both with the clock running.

Boundary Bay has its charms, and a "big airport" feel. But it has its issues too.

...laura

I agree with this, but that also being said I finished my licensing in the minimum time and felt completely prepared when I started my first job. A few extra hours here and there practicing stalls and forced approaches can only go so far. I found the arrival/departure out of ZBB, and dealing with Vancouver terminal regularly when going on cross country trips made the transition to IFR much easier and gained good radio habits from the beginning. There are positives and negatives.

I always had something to do on the way to and from the practice area as well. Diversions, navigating, practicing slips, steep turns and what not. Lots you can do if you plan it out well.

[Black_Tusk]

haha, I prefer to look like a pilot from day one , part of being professionally oriented.

I am also looking at OAS (Ottawa Aviation Services). Their iATPL program gets you to 250hrs and Air Georgian interview (if qualified of course), not sure if this kind of schools actually do that.
I wonder if busy airports and terrain/wx could help better piloting skills. like CZBB, CYTZ, CYOW...

I preferred to show up in shorts and a tshirt, especially when it was 35* outside and the college program kids were sweating away in their unis. You have your whole career ahead of you to wear a uniform, don't make that a deciding factor on what school to choose.

And as I wrote above, I do believe that a busy airport does help with piloting skills. Especially radio work. Flying out of a smaller airport may gain you more airtime but dealing with crowded airspace and circuits will help you when you get that IFR job.

[JBI]

I love wearing my uniform at my airline; I loved wearing a suit while being a lawyer.

But, wearing a uniform while flight training should be just about the last thing you factor in when making a decision on where to go for training. When training (and when flying anywhere in Canada in a piston aircraft), in my opinion its way more important to dress appropriate for the weather, survival conditions and comfort. Is it important to look professional when flying paying customers? You bet. But for training, you're the 'customer'.

I sure do miss being able to wear my flight suit - A T-shirt on underneath in the summer, double layers in the winter and navy blue sure hid the oil stains better than dress whites (now I can't even get the zipper done up past my waist though ).

[HansDietrich]

I agree with many other people. I've done my training in Alberta, but also lived in BC and MB. I would not go to a flight school in the lower mainland. Weather is horrible there for VFR training. I'd pick Alberta or Manitoba.

[FlightSolutions]

This is purely anecdotal but I cancelled more in Alberta than in the Lower Mainland during my training for winds, temperatures, and thunderstorms. Despite the low ceilings, the weather seemed to be more stable so we usually were able to get something done.

[David Bayyari]

At CZBB you will spend a lot of time on the ground waiting for takeoff clearance. You will spend time en route to Glen Valley for flight lessons. Both with the clock running.

Boundary Bay has its charms, and a "big airport" feel. But it has its issues too.

...laura

I agree with this, but that also being said I finished my licensing in the minimum time and felt completely prepared when I started my first job. A few extra hours here and there practicing stalls and forced approaches can only go so far. I found the arrival/departure out of ZBB, and dealing with Vancouver terminal regularly when going on cross country trips made the transition to IFR much easier and gained good radio habits from the beginning. There are positives and negatives.

I always had something to do on the way to and from the practice area as well. Diversions, navigating, practicing slips, steep turns and what not. Lots you can do if you plan it out well.

That is my thought on busy airports and radio work.
What concerns me is that CFC recommends (if not requires) training 150hrs in Kamloops and he 50 hours in CZBB. I would prefer to deal with radio traffic all 200 hours.
They offer mountain flying, and other courses as part of their training program.

Weather is not a factor. I believe their minimums is 1 mile? Works for IFR, unless I am wrong.

I really love Harv'sAir. Their website, videos, and that they have almost everything from a place to stay to a car to take for a run to the city. And the fact they have ATPL program.

I still prefer BC for the different trainings I can have from its landscape features.
I still want ATPL exams done, in case I could get a job elsewhere, like Europe.
So I am not sure how to look at things.

Given school reputation, Harv'sAir is well know and anyone could tell from their website and emails.
I have zero clue about CFC. And I am not aware of any other school in BC to offer ATPL track.

Is their ATPL diploma too good to be true? I would assume they require initial deposit